Mafia Games....

[Kashta]

Has there been a problem with an alias?

Yes. No need to reveal names here, but I can disclose them if necessary. (At this point, I still choose not to.) At least three different aliases involving different "anonymous" players -- in different games recently.

I agree there may be a few retired players who may only wish to play anonymously. If that's true, then we may lose their rare and infrequent participation in the future. I lay full responsibility for that on those who've just ruined a good thing for others.

However, that isn't certain either, and they still have an opportunity to decide they'll agree to play under their own name or using an alias that will be revealed eventually. The other consideration is... if they really aren't interested and don't want to play anymore without total secrecy, they're probably not going to start being active again even if we beg them to. They all know they are welcome to come back any time. So as a "maybe," this isn't as important a factor to me.

I believe even MORE people have left the game (at times or for good) because of the actions exhibited by more active players who have also recently used alias names to behave badly, knowing they would not be identified. I feel that is a more important consideration here.

This wouldn't have become an issue at all had the more current players not abused the benefit of doubt we gave them.

As to making game mod's decide individually whether or not they will reveal someone's identity against their will after a game is over on a case by case basis... that really isn't being fair to any mod, putting all of this on them like that to be the one who may have to "betray" someone who already expected their confidence. Each game mod is there to monitor a single game only, not having to also make decisions or set precedent for how all games might be played. We all share in this... we should not force individual mods to be the "bad guy" when we can all resolve the issue in a more general way and leave individual bias, personal relationships, and personalities out of this completely.

Besides, if certain digs were blatant enough to justify it, any game mod worth their salt would have taken action at the time it happened. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is..... personal attacks can be done and have been done subtly enough that a game mod doesn't even realize one alias player offended someone. That's what I think we should stop at this point.

LG, I'm not talking right now about a general evolution of the game, natural player attrition, or some feeling of nostalgia about how fun they were or weren't before. I just recognize a new problem with games now that I felt should be discussed openly (without naming names). This could not have been an issue before because nobody found it necessary back then to keep their identity a secret after games ended. That has nothing to do with any other aspect of this game except how we use alias names.

 

[Kashta]

I think the Mod should know the alias players real names. I know some in the past have not. If a player wants to remain anonymous that is their business. If an anonymous player UDs or otherwise causes problems during the game I think the Mod should reveal their identity. Sort of a "Mod-kill" type punishment so the aliases are not abused. JMHO

If it is automatic that the names are revealed at the end some will still not sign up. It also takes away this aspect of the alias...



Which Kash pointed out.

I agree had previous game mods done that at the time, this may not be necessary. But for reasons of their own, they didn't. Like I said, as something like that happens even a mod might assume it's just part of the game itself even if when it isn't. So they shouldn't be expected to spot it and deal with it. We also can't expect all game mods to even know what kind of interaction all the players have had who sign up for a single game with everyone else who is playing too.

No, I'm saying less experienced players could still play under an alias without added scrutiny during the game itself. After a game ends, then their actions, comments, and everything else would be openly discussed by anyone who wants to give them feedback. Making mistakes or not knowing how to play isn't something to be ashamed of. None of us should ever make them feel that way. It's a normal part of a beginner's learning curve anyway.

 

[jbradt]

I agree that there is a real possibility for aliases to be abused. I just don't know if one hard and fast rule is going to be appropriate for all games. I still think that some amount of personal responsibility has to be taken by each player. In the cases Kash mentioned above, if someone really felt they were being picked on, they could have pmed the game mod to bring it to that person's attention. If players see in one game that a particular player is seriously detracting from the game, they can contact the game mod. If someone feels personally slighted, or enough people feel negatively about one person's impact; then the game mod will have that information... it won't all be put on their shoulders. I don't know if it's possible to stop abuse of this nature with a hard and fast rule. I think it takes a commitment on each player's part in every game. Not in a sense of spite, or "policing" each other, but just remembering that we're all friends here to have a good time playing a silly game.

 

[Lady G]

Yes. No need to reveal names here, but I can disclose them if necessary. (At this point, I still choose not to.) At least three different aliases involving different "anonymous" players -- in different games recently.

I agree there may be a few retired players who may only wish to play anonymously. If that's true, then we may lose their rare and infrequent participation in the future. I lay full responsibility for that on those who've just ruined a good thing for others.

However, that isn't certain either, and they still have an opportunity to decide they'll agree to play under their own name or using an alias that will be revealed eventually. The other consideration is... if they really aren't interested and don't want to play anymore without total secrecy, they're probably not going to start being active again even if we beg them to. They all know they are welcome to come back any time. So as a "maybe," this isn't as important a factor to me.

I believe even MORE people have left the game (at times or for good) because of the actions exhibited by more active players who have also recently used alias names to behave badly, knowing they would not be identified. I feel that is a more important consideration here.

This wouldn't have become an issue at all had the more current players not abused the benefit of doubt we gave them.

As to making game mod's decide individually whether or not they will reveal someone's identity against their will after a game is over on a case by case basis... that really isn't being fair to any mod, putting all of this on them like that to be the one who may have to "betray" someone who already expected their confidence. Each game mod is there to monitor a single game only, not having to also make decisions or set precedent for how all games might be played. We all share in this... we should not force individual mods to be the "bad guy" when we can all resolve the issue in a more general way and leave individual bias, personal relationships, and personalities out of this completely.

Besides, if certain digs were blatant enough to justify it, any game mod worth their salt would have taken action at the time it happened. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is..... personal attacks can be done and have been done subtly enough that a game mod doesn't even realize one alias player offended someone. That's what I think we should stop at this point.

LG, I'm not talking right now about a general evolution of the game, natural player attrition, or some feeling of nostalgia about how fun they were or weren't before. I just recognize a new problem with games now that I felt should be discussed openly (without naming names). This could not have been an issue before because nobody found it necessary back then to keep their identity a secret after games ended. That has nothing to do with any other aspect of this game except how we use alias names.

I see, I didn't realize any had abused anything.

It wouldn't be betraying anyone for a mod to reveal names, if it was said in the sign up "All names will be revealed" it's all about the wording in the rules. Whoever the mod is, would make the decision on if names will be revealed or not and state it in the rules. In a game where it would not be revealed IF someone is abusing the situation and taking advantage of that to harass another player, it needs to be brought to the Mods attention and addressed. The Mod of the game takes on the responsibility of having to be "the bad guy" at times no matter what the game is or how it is set up, there is always a chance something can happen.

There are many times things are said, which may or may not be seen as offensive one person will be offended while another may not and the post may not actually of been meant to offend; someone just takes it the wrong way. I know this has happened with me personally many times, there have been time the player and I talked outside the thread after the game and realized it really wasn't meant in the way the other took it (toward myself and me toward others). We are in a game that can get heated and people need to realize that....BUT people should never be allowed to offend on purpose and if they are doing it all the time, it needs to be addressed. I'm not saying right this moment names need to be revealed as to who you are talking about..but if it is something that continues that person needs to be taken out of the game indefinitely or addressed accordingly. This is a game and suppose to be fun and anyone who has an issue with someone else for whatever the reason needs to keep it out of the game or they need to stay out of the game...period.

 

[Kashta]

JB..... At the time it happened, the person who was targeted did not know the identity of that player because they used an alias. That's the whole point here. It was disregarded at the time and considered to be a cute a joke coming from a friendly player because they assumed the alias player to be somebody else.

After the game was over and the person found out the actual source, it was clearly NOT just a friendly harmless joke but something spiteful done in retaliation by someone else who couldn't have done that at all and get away with it during a game if they weren't anonymous when it happened.

Even so, complaint WAS made by more than one player to the game mod when it happened. The mod knew who the alias player was all along but could not have guessed the implication from that alone not knowing anything else about it. The players who complained had no idea who it was at the time and, thus, what the meaning behind it was at all until after the game was over.

This naturally makes the mod feel even more protective of the alias player's secret identity in response afterwards. Why should they be obligated to get involved one way or another unless it put the entire game in jeopardy, which it did not? After the game is over, a mod is even less inclined to get mixed up in any personal issues. Nothing is done. And most everyone else knows nothing about it at all.

The behavior probably wouldn't have happened at all if everyone knew or just assumed we all would find out the alias player's identity later on. That's why I made this suggestion, so we could prevent similar occurences like this in the future. And it's for that reason I felt it would be best for all of us to prevent this from continuing.... without having to get into specifics about who was involved.

 

[Kashta]

I see, I didn't realize any had abused anything.

It wouldn't be betraying anyone for a mod to reveal names, if it was said in the sign up "All names will be revealed" it's all about the wording in the rules. Whoever the mod is, would make the decision on if names will be revealed or not and state it in the rules. In a game where it would not be revealed IF someone is abusing the situation and taking advantage of that to harass another player, it needs to be brought to the Mods attention and addressed. The Mod of the game takes on the responsibility of having to be "the bad guy" at times no matter what the game is or how it is set up, there is always a chance something can happen.

There are many times things are said, which may or may not be seen as offensive one person will be offended while another may not and the post may not actually of been meant to offend; someone just takes it the wrong way. I know this has happened with me personally many times, there have been time the player and I talked outside the thread after the game and realized it really wasn't meant in the way the other took it (toward myself and me toward others). We are in a game that can get heated and people need to realize that....BUT people should never be allowed to offend on purpose and if they are doing it all the time, it needs to be addressed. I'm not saying right this moment names need to be revealed as to who you are talking about..but if it is something that continues that person needs to be taken out of the game indefinitely or addressed accordingly. This is a game and suppose to be fun and anyone who has an issue with someone else for whatever the reason needs to keep it out of the game or they need to stay out of the game...period.

Exactly, Lady G. Other players don't know who's involved. That game is past history now. It wasn't possible for the game mod to grasp what was actually going on at the time because all the facts weren't known to them, so they could not have dealt with that appropriately then even if they chose to. We couldn't expect them to... it also had nothing to do with their particular game in play anyway.

As we don't have a designated authority to regulate mafia games overall... and we certainly don't want one!!.... the only thing to be done about this now is bring it forward for open discussion.

 

[Lady G]

JB..... At the time it happened, the person who was targeted did not know the identity of that player because they used an alias. That's the whole point here. It was disregarded at the time and considered to be a cute a joke coming from a friendly player because they assumed the alias player to be somebody else.

After the game was over and the person found out the actual source, it was clearly NOT just a friendly harmless joke but something spiteful done in retaliation by someone else who couldn't have done that at all and get away with it during a game if they weren't anonymous when it happened.

Even so, complaint WAS made by more than one player to the game mod when it happened. The mod knew who the alias player was all along but could not have guessed the implication from that alone not knowing anything else about it. The players who complained had no idea who it was at the time and, thus, what the meaning behind it was at all until after the game was over.

This naturally makes the mod feel even more protective of the alias player's secret identity in response afterwards. Why should they be obligated to get involved one way or another unless it put the entire game in jeopardy, which it did not? After the game is over, a mod is even less inclined to get mixed up in any personal issues. Nothing is done. And most everyone else knows nothing about it at all.

The behavior probably wouldn't have happened at all if everyone knew or just assumed we all would find out the alias player's identity later on. That's why I made this suggestion, so we could prevent similar occurences like this in the future. And it's for that reason I felt it would be best for all of us to prevent this from continuing.... without having to get into specifics about who was involved.

Well, if someone is that vindictive and spiteful maybe they should not be in the games at all. We play these games to have fun, not be spiteful and hateful to each other.

After the game is over, yeah there really is nothing the game mod can do about anything that happened during the game, but they can be sure to watch for things like that and be sure it isn't a reoccurring thing. Personally, I would not want to "protect" any player even a favorite vet if they were intentionally trying to make personal attacks on another player.

 

[Lady G]

I'm just going to say, if this is the case...I agree it should be known your name will be revealed at the end. I hate to loose a couple players who may of played only if they remain anonymous, because I do enjoy having them in the games, but if there are some who are going to this extreme to be hateful to another player and a simple fix would be to reveal names in all alias games..then so be it, that is what needs to be done.

 

[Rbishop]

Mafia games are like reality...what you perceive may be totally false. One individuals thoughts that alias are overall bad and they need to be revealed at games end, just sort of breathes vindiction needed from my point of view. Just like anything else on this forum...if you have an issue...contact a forum Mod.....if you truly feel the game Mod has not listened to a provable point, vice your opinion. Kind of hard to make a statement that a certain alias is definitely "Joe" and he is making abusing posts towards me. Just my thoughts....

 

[Lady G]

Mafia games are like reality...what you perceive may be totally false. One individuals thoughts that alias are overall bad and they need to be revealed at games end, just sort of breathes vindiction needed from my point of view. Just like anything else on this forum...if you have an issue...contact a forum Mod.....if you truly feel the game Mod has not listened to a provable point, vice your opinion. Kind of hard to make a statement that a certain alias is definitely "Joe" and he is making abusing posts towards me. Just my thoughts....

I think, if I understand Kash's point; what happened was in three different instances with three different players and because they knew their names wouldn't be revealed after the game ended, they took advantage of that fact to "attack" a specific player...when if it was stated that names would be revealed in the end they would not of done that and it was meant to be personal. I just do not know how the person who attacked a specific player knew they were going after the right person if it was all alias names or how the intended "target" of attack knew who the alias was if it wasn't revealed?...but that doesn't really matter if they DID know and they DID take advantage of "hiding" behind a alias that is just plain wrong and shouldn't be allowed.