Maintenance Questions for Heavily Planted Tank

[uncskainch]

Hello Everyone --

I have a 29 gallon planted tank and, as you can see from my other recent postings, I'm planning to upgrade my lighting to 65w and get a CO2 system (probably a DIY or something commercial that is akin to the DIY yeast-and-sugar systems). As I think more seriously about a heavily planted tank, a few questions came to mind:

(1) If you have a lot of your gravel surface area covered with plants (I like the look of heavily planted tanks and will probably include many plants once I upgrade my light and CO2), especially new plantings that haven't rooted deeply yet, how do you manage vacuuming gravel without disturbing the plants? Just go carefully, I assume, but is this a major issue in terms of keeping your substrate free of debris?

(2) If plants do make vacuuming the gravel a bit dicey, does it then make sense that the planted tank should be monitored more carefully than the unplanted tank in terms of things like overfeeding that could create excess debris at the bottom of the tank? Or, alternatively, does it make sense for a planted tank to have a few more members of the "tank bottom cleaning crew" to make up the difference?

(3) A CO2 question -- if I add a CO2 system, I was looking at one (a Red Sea Turbo CO2 reactor) that has a powered pump which can then be put on a timer to shut off and reduce CO2 at night when the plants can't use it. My thinking was I could set up timers so the lights and CO2 came on in the morning and when those went out, the airstone would come on. To prevent water siphoning up the air hose, I have a check valve -- is this sufficient to prevent any damage to the pump in this kind of off-and-on system? Any other good solutions (and does this plan sound reasonable?)

(4) I was in PetSmart the other day and they had some really lovely large snails -- deep yellow shells, really pretty. Are snails a good thing or a bad thing in the planted tank? (I also seem to have a few "freeloader" snails in my tank from eggs that were presumably on my purchased plants -- in modest numbers are these anything to worry about?)

My plan is to eventually have 3 black kuhli loaches, some ghost shrimp, a few Oto. catfish and maybe some of the cool snails if they're a good choice for the planted tank. Would this be sufficient to keep algae and "crud" to a reasonably healthy and attractive level, provided I do a good job monitoring my feeding levels, keeping up with water changes, etc.?

Thanks for all the help I've received in this forum -- I'm so glad to have found AquariaCentral, and I look forward to the day when I can be the "voice of experience" for some other planted tank newbie!

Kathy
----------------------------
29 gallon freshwater
Penguin 330 biowheel
100w heater
12" airstone
15 w flourescent that came with the tank (hope to replace soon)
substrate - flourite and black gravel
2 rocks with swim-through holes, 1 large piece of driftwood
6 zebra danios
wisteria
cabomba
sword plant
java fern

 

[Olakytrion]

this is a pretty complicated question- maybe the guys at www.plantedtank.net would be able to help you out more....

 

[uncskainch]

Thanks.

Thanks for the link -- I'll check out that forum as well. If folks here have ideas for me, though, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Harlock]

this is a pretty complicated question- maybe the guys at www.plantedtank.net would be able to help you out more....

Not that complicated . Trust me, the folks on this forum can answer this one. I'll take first stab:

(1) If you have a lot of your gravel surface area covered with plants (I like the look of heavily planted tanks and will probably include many plants once I upgrade my light and CO2), especially new plantings that haven't rooted deeply yet, how do you manage vacuuming gravel without disturbing the plants? Just go carefully, I assume, but is this a major issue in terms of keeping your substrate free of debris?

You guessed correctly. Go carefully and suck up what you can. The nice thing about planted tanks is that waste is fertilizer as long as it is nuder control. That's why a lot of us with planted tanks suggest weekly gravel vacs and water changes, just to stay on top of the waste issue before it becomes a problem. If a plant floats up, just replant it. After a while, it becomes less of an issue as the plants will put out roots rather quickly.

(2) If plants do make vacuuming the gravel a bit dicey, does it then make sense that the planted tank should be monitored more carefully than the unplanted tank in terms of things like overfeeding that could create excess debris at the bottom of the tank? Or, alternatively, does it make sense for a planted tank to have a few more members of the "tank bottom cleaning crew" to make up the difference?

I do weekly testing of my tank now that it has settled into regular mode. After the cycle I tested daily for about two weeks, following my regular maintenance schedule, then every two or three days for two weeks. Onec I saw everything was fine and there were no disturbing trends, I went with weekly tests, just like any other tank. If you are worried about overfeeding, feed less or clean more. Adding fish for overfeeding still produces waste in the tank, so it never really helps all that much. Really, when you step back and look at it, it is counterintuitive. Just cut back on feedings if you're worried. If you want advice, I only feed my fish what they can devour in 30 seconds time, twice a day and I fast them one random day each week. This week I fasted them yesterday. I also pre-soak my food in a little tank water so some will float, but a lot still sinks so my mid-level feeders get what they need and some makes it to the bottom for the cories.

(3) A CO2 question -- if I add a CO2 system, I was looking at one (a Red Sea Turbo CO2 reactor) that has a powered pump which can then be put on a timer to shut off and reduce CO2 at night when the plants can't use it. My thinking was I could set up timers so the lights and CO2 came on in the morning and when those went out, the airstone would come on. To prevent water siphoning up the air hose, I have a check valve -- is this sufficient to prevent any damage to the pump in this kind of off-and-on system? Any other good solutions (and does this plan sound reasonable?)

If you are considering the DIY yeast and sugar approach, or even a comparable, commercially-made product, the need to regulate CO2 with the light cycle is really not a big deal. These types of systems do not pump in huge amounts of CO2. If you wanted to with the specific product regulate with a timer, you could, but it may be unnecessary. You can check out your CO2 levels when you hook one up and see how it's going. If you're getting a lot of CO2 (I mean into lethal levels for the fish) at night time, then certainly consider it, or just simply use less yeast in your mix. The CO2 thread will really help you answer these kinds of questions. If you haven't checked it out yet, it's a sticky at the top of the forum. Also, I always like check valves. I used one in my DIY CO2 not to protect a pump or anything, but just to prevent any siphoning. It's just good sense. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

(4) I was in PetSmart the other day and they had some really lovely large snails -- deep yellow shells, really pretty. Are snails a good thing or a bad thing in the planted tank? (I also seem to have a few "freeloader" snails in my tank from eggs that were presumably on my purchased plants -- in modest numbers are these anything to worry about?)

Most snails are nothing to worry about. Have some fun, do a search on snails in this forum. To see a thread I started a while back, search for snailses. There were loads of opinions and in the end I came out feeling snails are not at all bad in tanks. Some can eat plants, however, so find out what you are buying first. A lot of folks enjoy them as much or more than their fish and they are very adept at eating old dead leaves, algae and even left over food should you mess up one day and put too big a pinch in the tank. All in all, I've got no beef with snails in my planted tank.

My plan is to eventually have 3 black kuhli loaches, some ghost shrimp, a few Oto. catfish and maybe some of the cool snails if they're a good choice for the planted tank. Would this be sufficient to keep algae and "crud" to a reasonably healthy and attractive level, provided I do a good job monitoring my feeding levels, keeping up with water changes, etc.?

And here comes one of my infamous ambiguous answers: It depends. Algae can come in many forms and for various reasons in planted tanks. Most commonly plants outcompete algae for nutrients. In order for a plant to do this, however, it needs certain things to stay healthy enough to do so. Proper lighting, fertilization and CO2 levels are required. CO2 goes a long way in helping plants in my experience. Some algae is common. Green Spot can come and go even in healthy tanks. Again, though, you answered your own question; so long as you do a good job with feeding, water changes and in addition, monitoring and fertilization, you will acheive a balance in your tank and the plants will flourish while algae won't stand much of a chance. It can take some time to learn and get there, but that's what forums are for. Good luck and I hope I answered these "complicated' (actually very common) questions for you in a non-complicated manner.

 

[Mooch28]

Hello Everyone --

I have a 29 gallon planted tank and, as you can see from my other recent postings, I'm planning to upgrade my lighting to 65w and get a CO2 system (probably a DIY or something commercial that is akin to the DIY yeast-and-sugar systems). As I think more seriously about a heavily planted tank, a few questions came to mind:

(1) If you have a lot of your gravel surface area covered with plants (I like the look of heavily planted tanks and will probably include many plants once I upgrade my light and CO2), especially new plantings that haven't rooted deeply yet, how do you manage vacuuming gravel without disturbing the plants? Just go carefully, I assume, but is this a major issue in terms of keeping your substrate free of debris?

(2) If plants do make vacuuming the gravel a bit dicey, does it then make sense that the planted tank should be monitored more carefully than the unplanted tank in terms of things like overfeeding that could create excess debris at the bottom of the tank? Or, alternatively, does it make sense for a planted tank to have a few more members of the "tank bottom cleaning crew" to make up the difference?

(3) A CO2 question -- if I add a CO2 system, I was looking at one (a Red Sea Turbo CO2 reactor) that has a powered pump which can then be put on a timer to shut off and reduce CO2 at night when the plants can't use it. My thinking was I could set up timers so the lights and CO2 came on in the morning and when those went out, the airstone would come on. To prevent water siphoning up the air hose, I have a check valve -- is this sufficient to prevent any damage to the pump in this kind of off-and-on system? Any other good solutions (and does this plan sound reasonable?)

(4) I was in PetSmart the other day and they had some really lovely large snails -- deep yellow shells, really pretty. Are snails a good thing or a bad thing in the planted tank? (I also seem to have a few "freeloader" snails in my tank from eggs that were presumably on my purchased plants -- in modest numbers are these anything to worry about?)

My plan is to eventually have 3 black kuhli loaches, some ghost shrimp, a few Oto. catfish and maybe some of the cool snails if they're a good choice for the planted tank. Would this be sufficient to keep algae and "crud" to a reasonably healthy and attractive level, provided I do a good job monitoring my feeding levels, keeping up with water changes, etc.?

Thanks for all the help I've received in this forum -- I'm so glad to have found AquariaCentral, and I look forward to the day when I can be the "voice of experience" for some other planted tank newbie!

Kathy
----------------------------
29 gallon freshwater
Penguin 330 biowheel
100w heater
12" airstone
15 w flourescent that came with the tank (hope to replace soon)
substrate - flourite and black gravel
2 rocks with swim-through holes, 1 large piece of driftwood
6 zebra danios
wisteria
cabomba
sword plant
java fern

Ill take a stab at number one. Im working towards heavily planted tank in my 72 gallon, and asked the same question a few weeks back. The easiest way i found is, hold the siphon tube about 2-3 inches above the gravel and plant roots and just shake it side too side. The lighter waste will just come floating up, grab as much as you can with the Siphon. Works well for me!

 

[uncskainch]

Thanks!

Thanks for the detailed advice and information. I feel like I'm going to be able to get thing started on the right foot when I finally get my lighting and CO2 in place.

I think what I'll do is remove the airstone altogether and go with a DIY or commercial yeast-based CO2 system with a "just in case" check valve. And I'll read the CO2 thread carefully before I get started so I'll know what I need to know.

Thanks again for all the help.