Medication for Algae

[djlen]

It would help if you consult our stickies at the top of the planted tank page. There you will find pictures of different types of algae and should be able to identify what you've got in your tank.
If you find that you have got BBA (black beard algae) you may need to pull the affected areas and bleach or prune as much of it out as you can.
I do agree with the need for Excel for your tank. It effectively replaces CO2 as a carbon source in a small tank and will get the plants growing and help combat many forms of algae.
Yes, test kits do not 'grow plants', but I suggested that you get certain ones for two reasons. You should know your water's parameters(tank and tap), and also it makes it possible to diagnose what's going on in your tank which none of us can see.
And I still think (with all due respect to Tom) that you should have the basic test kits if you intend to seriously pursue and interest in the hobby.
28 watts in not considered high lighting in a 10 gallon tank (especially if it is NO rather than CF lighting). Therefore, you should not have a great deal of problems getting things under control.
See if you can ID your algae positively, and pick up some Excel as soon as possible, and I would get some test kits.

Len

 

[plantbrain]

Even though I hold Tom in very high regards, I have to dissagree with a few things that he said. "test kits don't grow plants", the statement is very true, but test kits are absolutly essential in order to give your plants the best possible chance to grow. Eg On a Co2 injected tank the need to know the value of the PH and KH so as you can work out how much Co2 to put in, I will assume that your tank is not Co2 injected,

Actually you don't need to know pH and KH, you can watch the fish and plants carefully and slowly add more CO2 till the plants are pearling well and the fish do not appear stressed. Turing off CO2 at night will also help prevent any fish related issues which generally occur in the morning right before the lights come on.

pH and KH can get you close, but often time the readings do not give the desired effect, so you need to add a little more than we normally might think to have a healthy tank.

The other issue is complacency, many do not test their KH and then have CO2 issues due to the test kit readings from just testing the pH.

Test kits are a two edged sword.
Since the poster specifically was suggested to use Excel, this is a non issue in this case entirely.

No test kits needed at all.

but you will still need to know the levels of Po4 and No3,

With CO2, I tend to agree test kits help get you close, but not with these two nutrients at all.

Actually you are just plain wrong here.
If the poster does the routine 50% weekly water change, the levels will stay within 2x the max dosing rate(which assume no plant uptake at all---highly unlikely) or above the maximum demand at exteremely high light/CO2 uptake rate for a very densely planted tank.

Some tap waters are high or low in these nutrients, but generally fairly low in NO3. A simple request from the water company will let you know what their levels are. But they do not test that often in many cases and the levels change(often lower), adding more, does no harm.

for the reason that these two nutrients are the biggest reason why algae will flourish(A few other factors will also come into play).

As someone who has actually tested this, a lack of these nutrients will cause this algae to occur, but...........with the advice given above, this will not occur.

IMO you would be mad to add KH2PO4 to a tank that has high Po4 b/c it will just make your situation worse and that is why it would be wise to test your water first before going and adding a plethora of ferts.

So I am mad then huh?
Hummmmm........hehe

So how precisely is adding more of something that is already clearly in excess going to impact the tank negatively.......????

At what high level does PO4 cause issues?

I'm asking because I do not know, but it's above 5ppm...........
NO3 also is similarly very high(I did well over 100ppm for 3 days and 3 weeks at 75ppm............not negative impact of plants, but the shrimp did not like above 100ppm NO3).

Having tested excess nutrients for algae or fish/critter issues, I actually have some data and numbers and time frames. I am able maintain the other nuterients levels in stable non limiting range during the test peroid.

What evidence do you have?
You are the one making the claim................

So I would suggest testing your tap water and your tank water and see if anything is lacking or not needed and then follow Tom's advise by adding the required ferts as suggested ,only if they are lacking I might add. Cheers.

From a waste prespective, this is fine. PO4, NO3, Gh etc ferts are very cheap and on such a small tank, hardly worth the trouble to test and considering Excel usage and weekly 50% water changes, certainly not worth my trouble nor theirs when it comes to having a nice planted tank.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[plantbrain]

It might surpise a few folks to know, I never measured CO2 for the first 3 years I used it except on client's tanks(which had a nice pH meter).

When I realized I had 2x or more what many folks had been adding and the Discus where breeding, something was up with the prevailing advice at the time.

I added a little bit more and a little bit more till I had the response from the plants I wanted. If you do this slowly, turn off CO2 at night, it will not harm fish. MAIN THING: watch the fish in the evening, generally the last few hours.
Bubble rates can get you in the ball park and the work your way up from there.

I suggest folks use the pH/KH relationship still, but then if things are still not right, add a little bit more and watch and see.

Even someone with 10 years in the hobby had trouble with their CO2, now we've added more than what many would say we should but plant health has increased dramatically.

NO3/PO3, KH/pH test kits can easily be wrong, unless you test them against a known standard.

This is a PITA for new folks and to explect them to learn it, and buy and test all these paramaters keeps folks away from the hobby and micro manages things too much IMO.

Some folks have the personality etc to do that, I suggest to them, go for it, but with a grain of salt.

Most don't get into the hobby to test water, they like to have fish, plants etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[ashdavid]

Actually you don't need to know pH and KH, you can watch the fish and plants carefully and slowly add more CO2 till the plants are pearling well and the fish do not appear stressed. Turing off CO2 at night will also help prevent any fish related issues which generally occur in the morning right before the lights come on.

pH and KH can get you close, but often time the readings do not give the desired effect, so you need to add a little more than we normally might think to have a healthy tank.

Ok, I am not trying to argue but, I would like to respond to your post.
Everything you have said is quite correct, I am not dismissing that fact,but you speak as though your word is final.
You need to test water b/c you need to find a standard to work from, without that standard it would be like trying to find something in the dark, sure you might eventualy find it ,but during that time a lot uneccessary problems can occur. I agree there is no need to test every day and you can judge what Co2 your plants and fish can handle just by looking at them. This proccess takes time and is much easier to come to conclusions if the water is tested regularly, then once you have a good understanding of what works you can test fewer and far between. As in the case of the poster no Co2 is involved but it still would be wise to understand the changes that the ph and kh will go through as the plants begin to flourish.

It might surpise a few folks to know, I never measured CO2 for the first 3 years I used it except on client's tanks(which had a nice pH meter).

When I realized I had 2x or more what many folks had been adding and the Discus where breeding, something was up with the prevailing advice at the time.

How did you realize that you had twice the amount of Co2 in your tank? By testing it I assume. You keep saying that test kits are unessary but in order to obtain data on the things your are talking about, test kits are an invalubale tool.

With CO2, I tend to agree test kits help get you close, but not with these two nutrients at all.

Actually you are just plain wrong here.
If the poster does the routine 50% weekly water change, the levels will stay within 2x the max dosing rate(which assume no plant uptake at all---highly unlikely) or above the maximum demand at exteremely high light/CO2 uptake rate for a very densely planted tank.
Some tap waters are high or low in these nutrients, but generally fairly low in NO3. A simple request from the water company will let you know what their levels are. But they do not test that often in many cases and the levels change(often lower), adding more, does no harm.

What you say dose not change the fact that a good test kit for No3 and Po4 will help gauge what levels you have in your tap water and in your tank. You say the poster does not need to test for this a that his/her water is PROBABLY low in these two nutrients, as you say the water company don't test for these very often so just to be safe than sorry it is better to test them for yourself. But like I originaly said adding these nutrients to your tank with out knowing what your waters levels are is a recipe for disaster.

As someone who has actually tested this, a lack of these nutrients will cause this algae to occur, but...........with the advice given above, this will not occur.

Yes lack of these nutrients will cause algae to occur, but on the other hand excess of these nutrients will also cause algae to occur and if you say any different you are wrong. That is why a balance is needed , anything lacking or that is in abundance will adversly effect the plants ability to grow well. References Fritsch,F.E. 1956"The structure and reproduction Algae", vol 1.

So how precisely is adding more of something that is already clearly in excess going to impact the tank negatively.......????


Having tested excess nutrients for algae or fish/critter issues, I actually have some data and numbers and time frames. I am able maintain the other nuterients levels in stable non limiting range during the test peroid.

What evidence do you have?
You are the one making the claim.................

You don't have to be a genius realize that adding something that is having a negative effect on something will not get any better by keeping on adding that certain thing. That is the point I am trying to make if it is not neccessary why add it ? And how do you find out if it is neccessary? by testing the water. If you want data I can provide it for you, but like I said before there are many factors that can and will cause algae in a planted tank.

From a waste prespective, this is fine. PO4, NO3, Gh etc ferts are very cheap and on such a small tank, hardly worth the trouble to test and considering Excel usage and weekly 50% water changes, certainly not worth my trouble nor theirs when it comes to having a nice planted tank.

NO3/PO3, KH/pH test kits can easily be wrong, unless you test them against a known standard.

This is a PITA for new folks and to explect them to learn it, and buy and test all these paramaters keeps folks away from the hobby and micro manages things too much IMO..

JMO but as I stated before test kits are a good guide to have. I do not see why you are so against them, I don't believe in testing everyday either and yes suggetsing that someone should test everyday is probably not good for the hobbie ,but I never said for the poster to test everyday. I mearly said test what your water is like now and then you can start thinking about a plan of attack, you suggesting what the poster should add on assumptions alone is a mistake IMO. I do not claim to know everthing ,but I do make recomendations on sound information and testing your water's parameters is a fundamental part of keeping plants healthy for a long period of time.