Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, part 1-4

Can you explain the cons of using a double layer screen? I setup my ATS about a year ago with 2 double screens and it has worked good but now others are telling me you are against using double screens and recommend single layers screens. Can you give some details as to why? I am not questioning your advice... you are the man when it comes to ATS, I am just curious if I should change to a single layer screen now that is about time to replace my screens anyway. Thanks!
 
Do you have any designs for larger scrubbers, preferably that can fit in a fairly small footprint?

You really don't want one big one. Having multiple small scrubbers is much better than one big scrubber. Bigger display tanks have more money in livestock, and need more reliable and consistant filtering. Unlike a skimmer which does not remove nutrients, if you have only one scrubber and it is not running for some reason, you will get a quick buildup of nutrinets: The glass will get dirty quickly, and film algae may appear on the rocks, sand, and backwall. So by having multiple smaller scrubber screens, pumps and lights, you always have one scrubber grown (and filtering) while waiting for the other one(s) to start growing again after being cleaned. And the more you can put the multiple scrubber parts in different "areas", the better, so that no matter what happens to one, you will always have the other(s). For example, put one scrubber on a different fuse/breaker than the tank; use a separate pump for each, or use a pump on one and the overflow on another; set one on the sump and another on the display, etc.

If your tank is new and is not yet stocked, you can always just start out with one scrubber and keep it that way until you're livestock and feeding are too much for it to handle. You will know it is time when you can measure any nitrate or phosphate at all. There really is no need for a scrubber larger than a 100 square inch; even if you have a 300 gallon tank, three 100's is far better than a single bigger scrubber. Only if your tank is big/fed enough to need more than three would you have any need for a "bigger" scrubber. Three scrubbers should be your target.

Lastly there is cleaning. When cleaning a screen, you need to be able to lay it flat on the bottom of a sink so you can scrape it. A 100 square inch screen fits nicely in most sinks. A larger screen might not.

"Small footprint" is another matter altogether. "Small" requires acrylic walls, and thus might not be easy to DIY. The SM100 I make is about as compact as you can get for a 100 inch screen, and it makes 3D growth within the acrylic walls, but it's not easy to make. Usually, however, you don't hear people needed "compact" when they have big tanks.

my biggest concern is on a narrow, long screen, how to light the whole thing properly.

Don't make a trough; they are far too inefficient. If you really want to make just "one", and put it in a trash can, lighting will be your challenge. You'll need to get up 300 real (not equivalent) watts into the trash can. What's I'd do is line the trash can with mylar (using spray adhesive), fit the screen, and put 6 bulbs on each side, each bulb bulb being a 42 watts CFL curly-Q spiral 2700K. This will definitely work, and can be your only filter, and keep N and P at zero with no waterchanges. But if a pump or fuse goes out and you the scrubber stops, nutrients are going to build up very quickly.

Can you explain the cons of using a double layer screen?

If your tank is good, then it's fine. But in general, double layer screens require stronger lighting, more frequent cleaning, and down-to-the-screen cleaning, in order to take advantage of the extra "attachment" material. Otherwise, the algae gets too thick too fast and shades the roots. Most people are cannot keep up with this; therefore a single screen is more forgiving. And indeed, the recommendations are for "most people".
 
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I am good, I am using higher than normal CFL bulbs (2x 42w and 1x 68w) and I use an old credit card to scrape the screens clean weekly to where they look almost white again. I am redoing my sump real soon and will be using 12 Cree warm white LEDs, 6 per side, on my new sump setup and I will be using a single screen / single layer when I go that route.
 
Be prepared for no scrubber growth with the LED's. Nobody has made an LED scrubber yet which has performed well enough to match CFL's.

You would be better off running an experimental LED scrubber in parallel with a CFL scrubber, for comparison.
 
Really? Because the LEDs nuked the crap out of my SPS corals, I am getting the same PAR out of the LEDs as the sun puts out. No amount of CFLs over my display will harm my SPS corals. ;) We will see though.. I am sure you have seen quite a few attempts at an LED scrubber already... but hopefully I can be the first to make it work. :cheers:
 
Would be easy enough to get something like 120* optics over the LEDs to keep from burning holes in the algae if they were that close. And with that amount of PAR, the light source would not have to be as close to the screen as with CFLs.
 
I will be going with 1000ma 3w Cree Warm whites, NO Optics, and about 6" away.. I am sure that will give good coverage, intensity, and the right spectrum for algae. I do not see any of those threads you links even coming close to what I am planning on doing.. ok.. not true.. only 1 thread (http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=435&start=230) so I still have hope my plans will work out.. I may not be an ATS expert, but I do think I am a lighting expert. ;) I am growing quite a bit of Hair algae in my display since switching to LEDs on my display... so I know LEDs can grow algae just fine (so much that my ATS with CFL bulbs can no longer keep up)... getting LEDs to grow SPS corals is what is being troublesome to me at the moment.

Edit: And of course.. like you said SM, this is EXPERIMENTAL. I do not know 100% if it will work but I do believe the correct pieces are all there to get it to work.. just need to find the right balance just like with LEDs on the display.
 
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