Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, part 1-4

Yes, I agree, I was thinking a 20-30G container filled with cheato vs his scrubber, so it would be more like a factor of 20x the amount of space and cheato required to do the same job. But if you have the room to do that, wouldn't it take less power and maintenance to do the same job? I know, that is a rare circumstance I am speaking of with cheato, most people wouldn't have the space to do something like that, but I do.. so I am just trying to argue both sides of the coin for my circumstance. :)

Less maintenance, maybe, (because ideally, you should thin Chaetomorpha pretty often to keep it at its best), less power, maybe. With that size container for Chaeto, you'd still need a good amount of light, so that's arguable. I guess it depends on how much light you prefer to beam your chaeto with (in my case, the scrubber was about 40w less, since I was using a strip of 2 65w linear compacts). Scrubbers aren't for everyone and neither are giant, brightly lit refugia. If I had the room (or the constitution to see the power bill), I'd have all of them ;). In any case, there are lots of factors to consider. I chose a scrubber because it would accomplish what I want for less money (less watts and less GFO), but that was in my circumstances. Scrubbers won't be as advantageous for everyone. In the end, it's best to stick with what works best for you.
 
I was thinking 2x 24w T5HO 10k bulbs for a 34G rubbermaid dedicated for cheato, so 48w of power vs your 40w.. pretty comparable as far as power usage I think, unless you still think that wouldn't be enough light for that size container. My goal is less work on the tank, more enjoyment looking at it. It is already plenty of work as it is, a scrubber adds to the workload for me, and that is the opposite direction I am trying to make my tank go. I have no plans on getting rid of my skimmer or stop using GFO or Carbon.. those 3 are my staples for the tank.
 
Successes:

LethargicCoder on the MOFIB site: "A little update to [the] post I made a year ago today. I had removed the skimmer from this [33 gal] tank when I added the scrubber, and I have only done 1 water change on the tank since then. I had said "starting nitrates...let's just say they're high", that meant off the chart even after diluting with RO water. Tonight I tested the water and it looks like it's under 5ppm. All that showed up on the screen for months was brown sludge. After 7-8 months, it finally started looking green but no significant growth, but algae did start showing up around my overflow and return pipe and sump. I assume nitrates were too high to grow algae before this point. Algae is now green and growing some volume, not rubbery, and more like typical hair algae. With some water changes and better bulbs, I'm sure I could have shortened this process but I really wanted to see what it would do with nothing but [screen] cleaning. I think with the results of this, I'll be going with an algae scrubber instead of a skimmer on the 135g tank that will hopefully replace this tank soon."

Kidult on the scrubber site: "There are brown dense algae growing on my algaescrubber. I scrape my scrubber one time a week. I suppose that i did something wrong, because it's running for more than 2 months and PO4 is 0,34mg/l (hanna). how many time it will take to go PO4 down from 0.36 to 0? [...] One scraping for 3 days. After last advice (1 scrape for 3 days) my tank achieved PO4 0.07 (hanna) from 0.36 about 4 weeks ago. [...] Po4 is 0.02 (hanna) No3 is 0 (salifert) Thank You All!"

Chrissu on the scrubber site: "the heart of my ATS is a 24"x24" screen that keeps the ammonia at 0, the nitriate at 0, and my nitrates hover between 0-25 depending on how much I feed my fish. They get to eat VERY well now that I have the ATS. I've been able to eliminate my macro algae, DSB, and protein skimmer from my sump without issue (makes maintenance a breeze now)."

Rosenaa on the scrubber site: "My tank looks great since I set up my ATS and the corals are feeding in the water colum many times. Readings are all zero and just a little algae on the stones (due to phospate leaking out I guess)"

Rainer_Feyer on the RC site: "the scrubber is blowing my mind! I have really no [nuisance] algae left - very little, and hope a little bit stays forever so I don't have to separately feed the snails. Water is clear, no yellowing at all. And, still am only doing 5gal water change every 3 weeks - that's it (75g tank w/ 20g fuge which is really the scrubber)"

Markjack on the UR site: "[scrubber is] best thing iv'e ever done for my tank. saves you a small fortune in phos and nitrate removers"

Pengelli on the UR site: "I have been running [a scrubber] for about a year. I think they are brilliant. I have brilliant parameters and not a glimpse of nuisance algae."

Gigaah on the LR site: "Day 6 - The green [scrubber] algae really just started filling in. I also got a bit of a nitrite/nitrate spike. I had to take my HOB filter off line to get this [scrubber] running. I suspected and was ready for that. Nitrite .50, Nitrate 40. Did 10 percen water change. Day 8 Nitrite = less than .25 (not quite zero tho), Nitrate= 30, I am happy to report that all algae from the sand and glass is GONE! some on the rocks yet but I understand the phosphate rock leech thing is probably the reason. Day 14 Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 20. Screens are filling in better but not even half full. Day 17
Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 10. End of week 4: Nitrates are ZERO and my tank is stocked pretty high and was stocked pretty fast."

Reeffish on the SG site: "After running this [scrubber] for nearly 10 months for my 3 foot [tank], i have not look back since. It has solve my high NO3 & PO4 problem. From [over] 100 to 3 mg/L (NO3), and [over] 3 to 0.03 mg/L (PO4), both using salifert test kit; live rocks [were] covered with red algae; [now] live rocks covered with purple coralline algae; tank [had] algaes growing everywhere, to [now] a spotless one, it is really amazing. Thanks for this wonderful info. A short info to others on my setup, dedicated aquabee 1000 to supply water to my vertical screen, 8" by 10" (a bit under size). Took me 1 hours to rough up both sides of the screen. Two 24W Philips Tornado, one on each side running 18hrs a day. Cool daylight. Clean the screen every 5 days. Took me 2 months to see NO3 & PO4 results dropping. No magic here, i follow Bro SM recommendations closely and of course, patience. Good luck to all who wants to give this alternative method a try."

Murrman1969 on the WTF site: "Here it goes. I started with nitrates in my 180 salt tank of over 240 ppm which is a dark orange colour indicator on my test kit. Here is a picture of what the colour was. The picture does it no justice it was actually almost burgundy. So I did some research and this is what I came up with for an in-sump design and one for an external container [scrubber] design. The nitrates in my tank now are non existent."

Russel_P on the TR site: "Well my scrubber has finally gotten NO3 levels to zero. The only complaint I have is cleaning it. The algae (more like moss) grows in a large thick sheet that all wants to come off at once when I clean it. I bet I could pull a pound of algae of of it in one cleaning. No yellowing of water, though I do run a small H&S skimmer. The display tank went from a forest of bryopsis to no visible algae. I am building more for every rack in my shop."

Scottt on the MB site: "I built one for my small clownfish hatchery after reading this thread. It keeps the nitrates down (between 0 and 15) without any water changes. I use a skimmer and a filter bag also, as it is a hatchery, with tonnns of food input. I don't have any pics of my current scrubber. Its just a piece of plexi-glass at a 15 degree angle, sanded and drilled. I keep it ~10" below a 150w HPS."

Desertdawg on the SWF site: "I get about a handful of algae off of it every week, so far the water levels are staying almost perfect with just this scrubber and no other filtration or a skimmer running!!!"

Bridgeport on the scrubber site: "I set up my first turf scrubber [6 months ago] after reading through this site. Its gone through many changes since then as I did not have the right flow, lighting, or screen roughness to start. I finally adjusted all those problems and now the screen is growing thick light green algae. I did this project as an experiment and set it up on a ten gallon saltwater tank. I was plagued with red hair algae outbreaks in the ten gallon, and my 55 gallon tank. My plan was to start the algae scrubber on the ten gallon and then switch it over to the 55 gallon. I decided against this and have built another scrubber for the 55 (not in operation yet). The screen on the ATS for my 10 gallon was rather overkill. It is 11in. wide by 8in. height. Although it took a while to get it going because the bio load was very low, it is now working very well. I always clean the screen every weekend. It only takes a couple of minutes and is very easy. My ten gallon tank is now algae free(phos. near 0) and doing very well. As a matter of fact, I have been taking live rock from my 55gal which is still plagued with Red Algae, and putting them in the ten gallon to clean them off. I have done this several times and it has worked well."

Nrosdal on the scrubber site: "i have had an ats going for about 4-5 months and am finally happy with my design and the results that it is giving me, so i figured that i would post a thread with pics from along the way. i would love to say that my tank clearing up is only due to the ats but there are other factors (vodka dosing/more water changes) that also did contribute. But i can definately say that the ats is the biggest contributing factor in my tanks successfully staying free from green and my N and P staying within a reasonable range. [...] i was getting a little better growth of algae and doing 1-2 water changes a week, also changed bulbs to 6500k from the standard ones and put the scrubber on its own timer so that i could have it on for 18hrs as opposed to 12. over the next few weeks i saw some serious improvements in growth on my ats and noticed that the algae in the display was not growing back after my snails/crabs cleaned it. fast forward to today and the tank has been clear of algae (except for on 1 coral that the snails dont like to touch) for about a month now and even has a slight purple hue to it as opposed to green. Corals are slowly popping back out of the rock... and i have my latest version of the scrubber up and running for a week now (same screen just new lighting/box setup)."

Wormside on the spanish AR site, Google translated from Spanish: "From the beginning I had problems with algae in [my] tank, [i bought] a better skimmer (ASM G2) as recommended, but [it] was not so drastic a change as when I put the scrubber. I was running both for a while, about 3 months, and the algae began to disappear; the fourth month I broke my pump sedra (the skimmer) and since then the tank is with pure scrubber. The change to the tank to operate only with the scrubber is impressive; zero abolutamente algae in the display anything! Another thing [] is that now only change the water every month, and now it takes 2 months without water change, and everything perfect. Add course trace elements, Strontium and Molybdenum, Iodine, every week or 15 days , BioDigest Bioptima and in principle every 15 days, but now, every month. I saved a good salt water changes, and unlike [with] the skimmer, I have no saltwater replace []. Also saves energy because the Sedra I used 35w or something and I also heat the water, [but without skimmer] when the quite, low temperature 1 or 2 degrees []. Well many things are good [] we brought the scrubber, is incredible as simple as effective."

Labperck on the Spanish AR site, translated: "my tank is 8 months without a skimmer and water changes only, with the algal and some charcoal, and going very well my PO4 levels 0 and no3 to 0"

Lugac on the spanish AR site, translated: "After 2 months of use to me is working great, nitrates had stalled at 15 mg/l and sometimes climbed to 25 mg/l, and install the [scrubber] after that I went down to 10 mg/L, after a 5 mg/L and Last weekend are at 2 mg/L, I'm on the verge of leaving them to zero. As for phosphates, had at 0.1 mg/l and install the [scrubber] as quickly dropped to .03 mg/L."

Antonioalvarez on the spanish AR site, translated: "After 15 years of struggling with high phosphates and nitrates in the clouds, alone in my aquarium fish, I read about the algae scrubber [] and I decided to build it following the instructions:

Oct 24 2009: Build Algal Scrubber; pipe 3/4 inch, screen 30x40cm, pump 840 Gal/H and a pair of 55-watt bulbs 6500K savers. Water values for the time:

NH4, NH3 = 0
NO2= 0
NO3= 20 mg/l
PO4= 0.1

Oct 26 2009: The first and second day started sprouting weeds.

Nov 1 2009: Significant growth was observed.

Nov 2 2009: First harvest only one side of the screen.

Nov 9 2009: We measured parameters:

NH4, NH3 = 0
dNO2= 0
NO3= 20 mg/l
PO4= 0.05

Half Phosphates, Nitrates remain.

Nov 25 2009: Measured parameters remain the same, is harvested the screen. Bio-Balls delete, delete, mechanical filters, remove sand substrate and 25% water change. Measured parameters:

NH4 NH3 = 0
NO2= 0
NO3= 10mg/l
PO4= 0.25

The measures gave results.

Dec 1 2009: I introduce to my tank live rock cured for 30 days previously. Measured parameters:

NH4= 0
NO2= 0
NO3= 7.5 mg/l
PO4= 0.25

Dec 9 2009: It is harvested and measured parameters:

NH4 NH3 = 0
NO2= 0
NO3= 0 mg/l
PO4= 0
PH= 8
Temp= 25-26

TOTAL HAPPINESS!!! and remains so values.
 
Santa Monica 100 growth pics for first 7 days:

No seeding. Screen is one layer of roughed up playsic canvas, never used before:

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Videos:

Front Side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNHlRScPYn4

Back Side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYiWOxdliiA
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Here is the initial design for a nano scrubber. Nanos have always been the hardest to DIY a scrubber for. This scrubber is designed to be mounted above the waterline of a nano, and then drain down into it, without needing a real sump below the tank. It will come with a pump that will go into the display (like a powerhead) or into the hidden "sump" section at the back of the tank. I'm building a test version of it now, and if it works out good I'll post the plans for others to build:


25rough.jpg
 
What to dose when you don't do waterchanges

Many folks ask if anything needs to be dosed, if they stop doing water changes. If a reef tank, you'll certainly need to dose Calcium and Alkalinity. Then some Magnesium when needed. And maybe Strontium. The easiest way to dose Cal and Alk is by mixing some powdered lime with your topoff water. For details, search for "kalkwasser dripping". The powder is cheap from here: http://store.mrswagesstore.com/mrswagpiclim.html

Everything else is supplied by the food you feed, and by the organics from the scrubber. This includes all the trace elements that you always hear about. Remember that in the ocean, 90% of all life (besides bacteria) is algae. Algae provides all the food for everything that lives in the ocean, by coverting the sun into organics. And included in these organics are the trace elements that your tank needs too. Cal and Alk, however, are inorganic, and are used up quickly by corals and coralline, so you need to dose them often or continuously. Mag is dosed when your test says to. And the same with Strontium.
 
Here is the design for the nano scrubber box. This can be easily built by giving the plans to an acrylic shop. They can either build it for you, or, they can cut the pieces for you and you can silicone it together (use only aquarium-safe silicone)...

full size: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/25.jpg
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Success Updates:

Donny Mac on the MFT site: "i have built mine 1 year ago and it has made the maintenance of my tank so easy, the appearance of the glass and water is crystal clear. i keep coral and fish"

PRC on the LR site: "I tested my nitrates tonight. they are officially at ZERO. Couple of small details. I installed this DIY unit on a tank that was cycling. I started out with 20ppm Nitrates. i'm not running anything on this 90g tank except the algae scrubber. So within a 1 1/2 months I have a nice stable system. It may have taken a little less time, if I would have initially had the flow where I needed it. The entire thing took me less than 1 hr to make and install in my sump. And it works great. I use 4 lights (2 on each side). I'm using the lights recommended at the beginning of this thread. All I can say is the thing works... My nephew is running a skimmer, a filter, and has 100lbs. of rock and can't get his nitrates under 15ppm.. I spent .39 on a screen and have 0 nitrates."

Tristan on the LR site: "Im now convinced that the algae scrubber a more suitable than a skimmer. all the algae in my dt is gone!"

waucedah_joe on the RS site: "This thing works. When my [CFL] scrubber-prototype crashed [due to broken pump] my nitrates got up to 25 ppm before I was able to get this [LED scrubber] online, and then in 3 weeks they were near non detect level with the Salifert test kit. Rather than just say it's working for me, here's the datum:

Tank specs: 75g display w/ 40g sump. Heavily stocked. 1-3" blue tang, 1-3-1/2" powder brown tang, 2-Oscy clowns, 1-lawnmower blenny, 1-purple firefish, 1-manderin goby, 1-radiant wrass, 1-high fin goby, 3 BTA's, shrimp, crabs, 1-sand sifting star, 1-brittle star.

1/7 Return pump failed while out of town. Small CFL scrubber pretty much dead from drying up. Cleaned both sides and continued to use while working on new scrubber.
1/10 Nitrates 20 ppm. 20 gal water change
1/21 New scrubber on-line
1/24 Nitrates 25 ppm, old scrubber off-line. 20 gal water change. Last big water change. From here on out the only water change is 3-4 gallons every other week to replace water removed from vacumming detrius from return chamber of sump.
1/30 Nitrates 10 ppm
2/14 Nitrates 5 ppm
2/20 Nitrates 2.5 ppm
2/27 Nitrates <.2 ppm, Increased feeding 17% (from 5 cubes in two days to 6 cubes in two days. Mini icecube sized homemade frozen food. + small piece of nori every other day)
3/7 Nitrates 2.5ppm
3/14 Nitrates 2.5ppm
3/21 Nitrates 2.5ppm

No sugar, no skimmer, no macro algae. This is my only filter."

Rosenaa on the algae scrubber site: "Well its been a good while since I put up my ATS and I am very pleased! I had problems with red bubble algae and they are all gone now! Also coraline algae have sprung up everywhere and covering stone, glass and powerheads".

Inkidu on the algae scrubber site: "As far as this working, after several weeks with only a power head running, which feeds the scrubber, and some air pumps, there is absolutely nothing that is filtering besides the ats, my tank of 5 (say 5") discus and some cardinal tetra. My fish seem content (in fact I brought them back from the brink of death), I feed pretty heavily, the pea green water disappeared, and I have no algae in my tank. Thanks for all the help guys, I am going to call this a success."

Aeros on the algae scrubber site: "As a RO/DI is not within my budget at this time, I have been using tap water to top off and in my salt mix. [...] all my corals have doubled or tripled in size since December, and since adding my ATS all the hair algae has dissipated from the display (thanks mostly to the yellow tang) as well as the red cyano, and nitrates dropped from ~80 to ~10ppm. And pods galore!" All that being said, I will be investing in an RO/DI as soon as possible. For peace of mind mostly, and as part of an ATO set-up; manual topping off sucks."

Pepetj on the FL site: "As I reached the 2 months mark [with the scrubber], this is what I have to share. I've been measuring for Nitrates and Phosphates (Nitrates with Seachem's Nitrite/Nitrate test kit as well as calibrated PinPoint Nitrate Monitor; Phosphates with API's Phosphate test as well as Hagen's). I can tell that in my setting, which is a Nano Reef, I have been obtaining almost negligible readings (meaning as close to steady zero as I've ever seen) for both phosphates and nitrates."

Sillygoose on the RC site: "It's been two weeks since we scraped algae off of our new turf scrubber. As you can see in the pictures, growth has really taken off. Today, cleaning maybe 2/3 of the outer surfaces, we got 1 1/2 cups of algae off. The mat was 3/4-inch thick in places. The best part is that our NO3 is down from around 10 to below detect in 2 weeks without a water change. I can't tell if PO4 went down because I have a hard time with interpreting the test, but we are starting to see new coraline growth. It's very cool."

Gowingsgo on the RC site: I have been running a ATS for about 8 months now but set mine up with a skimmer. I built my sump with 5 separate chambers. (1 intake from main tank) (2 ATS) (3 skimmer) (4 fuge with live rock and sand so if I need to I can also put stuff in my sump) (5 return to main tank) I set mine up to remove algae from my display tank (and that is exactly what it is doing). But I have noticed that my skim-mate is much darker [note: scrubbers should not affect skimmate] and that I do not have to clean it as much (about once every week not every other day). also my nitrates have never been undetectable (more like 5+ ppm) but they have been 0 for the last 6 months now. [...] With turf scrubber [I have to clean the glass] once every 4 days, sometimes longer, without the scrubber I have had to clean the glass every day. [...] I love my ATS and don't think I would run a tank without one."

Lewk on the RC site: "I'm running a very simple scrubber on my 65 gallon. I've been using it since day one on the tank and my nitrates and phosphates have been at zero for several months now. I set everything up according to the algae scrubber site, and it's working great so far. I'm in the planning stages for a 135, and plan on using a scrubber there as well."
 
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