Miikun my Betta boy

[Otaku1811]

This is my 1st and only betta bought at my local petsmart. I've had him for about 6 months now in a 5 gallon tank with a mechanical top-fin filter. But over the past week and a half he went from active and ever-ready to eat his betta bio gold pellets (and omega one brine shrimp/flakes, tetramin flakes ect...he gets a variety, but I haven't tried bloodworms yet since I read they can have parasites... I'll probably try freeze dried and reconstitute them to soften them up before feeding them to Miikun...) to spitting out his food, to just not eating anything at all for over a week now. I am very very concerned about this and I have read all I can on possible illnesses he might have and have come up short. He doesn't react to a mirror, seeing food, or anything. He's been laying around on the bottom or on his favorite plant and he goes up for air every now and then. He seems to be breathing fast, his gills and mouth are moving... I don't think I've seen him do that before, not this frequently. I have tested the water and everything came back fine, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, PH, ect. The water temp. is 78 degrees F, and I have a measured amount of aquarium salt in the tank. I recently saw one dot of ick pop up so I treated it quickly with half a tablet of jungle fizz tabs and it went away. I just got done with a 4 day treatment for any possible internal bacterial infections including gill disease, but there's no change and his tank had a 50% water change.

I really love my fish and I don't want him to die. I even ordered the betta first aid kit off of bettatalk.com with some java moss for the tank. I really need some expert advice cause so far I have found nothing on the net that quite fits this scenario. His body is perfect in terms of his color, nice open fins, no white haze over his eyes, no ich, no velvet, no fin rot, no popeye, nothing. When he swims to get air he swims normally, so I don't think he has a swim bladder problem. Also I read about constipation but he doesn't look bloated at all. Please, if anyone knows anything about bettas I need some serious advice. I want to get a expert book on bettas but by the time it arrives it may be too late. Miikun is starving himself to death ;.; Help my Miikun! ;--;

 

[blackwolfXKAV]

what were your specific test results?
did you cycle the tank?

 

[Otaku1811]

The PH is 7.6, I know it's a little high but I am afraid to use chemicals to lower it since Miikun is not doing well and I dunno how slowly to add the PH neutralizer without stressing him out. The ammonia level was 2.5 on the test strip instead of 0 and I did use Kordon's Amquel and Novaquel which is supposed to get rid of ammonia, balance PH and take out nitrates and nitrites which my test strips show are at 0, the alkalinity of the water has always been on the high side and hard side and I haven't lowered it since Miikun is already in it and used to it and seemed to be very healthy for most of the 6 months I have had him so far. The water changes were 25% a day during the treatment with Erithromycin which gets rid of a lot of bacterial diseases. Today I put the filter back on with a fresh filet cartride and new carbon and the tank is circulating for the past few hours to remove any medication ect. Miikun is still hanging in there laying around and going up for air. Hope this info helps.

 

[Emg]

I have found that the best possible method for treating sick bettas....is just daily clean water changes rather than meds. The meds tend to stress out the fish even more than they're stressed already.

I would usually float a sick betta in a small 16oz walmart betta bowl/container...in a heated tank. I would also float another bowl with clean fresh water in the same heated tank. Each day I would just transfer the betta from his bowl to the clean bowl....then clean out the one he was in and set it up for the next day.

This worked just about every time, except in the situation where a betta has something like dropsy..which there really doesn't seem to be any cure for.

 

[Otaku1811]

Hmm I have a 1 gallon betta tank I could put him in so I could completely clean his current tank... I'm always fearful of drastic water changes cause I know they stress the fish out and lower the immune system even more. I would try your technique but I don't have a heater for the 5 gallon tank and it's lid is semi-attached with only a small rectangular opening to get in there to do anything. So...should I at least move him into a hospital 1 gallon tank and clean his 5 gallon one completely? Gravel and all? And if I put him in a one gallon, just having water the same temp and using the splendid betta water conditioner (to remove chlorine and chloramines) good enough? I don't wanna over chemical the poor thing.. I feel like a bad betta mommy ;.;

 

[Emg]

lol...no Otaku, you are NOT a bad betta mom.....alot of folks would just leave em to their own devices...sink or swim on thier own. At least you are trying and you've done everything that you have read that you should do.

I did that too with my first bettas, until I experienced myself what the meds can do to them and I've had much better success with the method I mentioned.

As far as it working for me, I think perhaps always having clean aged change water handy...instead of water right from the tap....helps to some degree. I have a 10gallon full of clean dechlorinated water on hand all the time. It sits for days and days before I use it. I think it makes the transition a little easier on the fish when the clean water has been sitting awhile.

If you were to gradually acclimate the fish to the clean change water first...then each days' change shouldn't stress him out all that much, since the change water is virtually the same..only cleaner.....IF you change him every day. (in some cases I would do this twice a day, depending on how sick the fish was and what it had)

By floating both bowls in the same heated tank there isn't the temperature issue to deal with either. But...you don't have a large enough heated tank so.....hhmm.....I have used a light over a betta hospital tank once..when I had nothing else, but...you have to be VERY careful about the water heating up too much..have a thermometer in it and keep an eye on it.

The reason for the smaller bowl (16 oz) is because, it's much easier to keep clean and do changes with the least possible disturbance to the fish. Whatever you have available and that's easiest to clean and stay on top of should work. Don't worry about how much room the betta has for now....I would imagine that it's probably too sick to care.

 

[Otaku1811]

Ok so...I've decided then to put him in the one gallon. But of course there's technical details...

Should I start it off with 50% of the water he's in now and 50% clean and each day change 25% until it's 100% clean...? (once I have the one gallon at the right temp and treated with conditioner). Basically, what do you advise me to do right now before he gets any worse? How should I go about transitioning/easing him into the one gallon with the least stress possible?

 

[Otaku1811]

I set up a hospital tank in the one gallon, got it down to the right temp, corrected the PH and got rid of the chlorine and stuff with conditioning. Miikun was getting progressively worse by the hour, now he's swimming faster then falling as if his body has no eenrgy, he even got stuck in his house and had trouble getting out even though it has a lot of exits. It's heartbreaking to see him this way so I gently scooped him out of the 5 gallon with my hand (which is clean) instead of the fish net cause I didn't want to damage his fins at all, and I put him in the 1 gallon. To my absolute horror, when he reached the bottom a small pool of blood came out under him, I don't know if it's coming from his gills but I suspect so since he has been having labored breathing. So I just read it can be cause by ammonia poisoning or stress, but it seems the ammonio is always 2.5 (a light green) on the test strip rather than 0 (yellow) even in the fresh clean water. I don't know what to do T_T I sat there and cried cause I am at a loss at this point and I feel like there's no one who can tell me what to do or help me. I'm no expert. He's still alive laying on the bottom breathing as much as he can. Poor Miikun ;.; Please if anyone can help me, please tell me what to do for him. Here's a pic of the current situation:

 

[Emg]

I'm sorry your having such a time with your little guy Otaku, don't worry, either way this goes, you're doing the very best you can.

I'm not sure how he's doing at the moment, but should he make it I would get rid of whatever PH adjustor you're using...fish will get use to whatever PH you have, just go slow with the acclimation process when you first get them and they should be fine.

You've done about all you can Otaku...hope he makes it.

 

[Otaku1811]

Is it possible Miikun has ammonia poisoning? I cleaned his 5 gallon and put him back in it, tested it and it has 0 ammonia and is at 80 degrees F. I'm praying for him. He still lays on the bottom and goes up every few minutes for air and he seems to be breathing hard. Luckily I haven't seen any more blood. This is a hard learning experience for me, if Miikun doesn't make it, I hope the next time I ever own a fish I will do things right next time. Starting with cycling the tank properly and having real plants. Thank you all who gave me advice and consolation.