Min. tank sizes for breeding CAs

[CrawlingChaos]

Hi all...been lurking here for quite some time, thought I'd ask for some opinions. By end of year, should be moving into new home, and setting up a fish basement (OR at least large portion of one). Been out of the hobby for a longggg time, but diving bk in in a BIG way. My fiancee shares my love of fish, so it will not be a one-man project...lol.
I've been looking for guidelines for minimum tank sizes to breed Central Americans. I've kept and bred a number of smaller cichlids in past, and kept some larger ones as individuals (managuense, red devil, dempsey to mention a few). What do you experienced breeders think of these minimum tank sizes for breeding pairs of the following?

Salvini - 65G (would prefer to try 55G)
Texas or minkleyi - 120G
Blackbelt, Synspilum, Red Devil, Festae - 180G
Managuense - 90G-120G
Dempsey - 55G

Will likely not have ALL of the above at any one time, but it is possible I will keep at least 5 of the above. Also would love some feedback on the breeding tanks for the following: H. Bartoni, Sajica, Spilurum. I expect most if not all Viejas would be ok with a pair in a 180?

Going to be fun, what with all the big tanks, quarantine tanks, hospital tanks, fry tanks and grow-outs...lol. I think it would be MOST helpful if somebody more experienced could put together a list of minimum tank requirements for individual and breeding pairs of the most common cichlids, although I know personal experiences differ. Last time around, I was not such a conscientious aquarist, overstocking, using tanks too small, etc...this time, am doing TONS of homework and prepared to give my fish the very best living conditions I can.

Thanks for the help and suggestions,

CrawlingChaos

 

[richos]

looks ok except the dempsy would pobly need the same as your texas, and the Jag (Managuense) will need the most of all at least 180...you can breed them in smaller tanks but you will need to monitor and remove/add the females when they are ready (in a smaller tank - even in a bigger for that matter) the males can and often do hammer the females if they are not ready to lay

 

[CrawlingChaos]

Thanks richos...I wondered about the managuense myself, I got those two figures (90G and 120G) somewhere on this site, but in my brief exp. with an 8" and 6" fish, they were THE most aggressive in a mixed tank, and both were removed fairly quickly. The tank also had a 6" devil, a pair of Dempseys (6" and 4.5" M,F), a 5" jewel, TWO pairs of breeding cons about 5" each. The cons set up housekeeping on opposite sides of a large driftwood trunk, and the Dempseys stayed mostly hidden in a cave. Amazingly, their was never more than some chasing and a few stand-offs, but I know all H**l would have broken loose eventually.
My Dempseys were not at all aggressive toward each other, probably because of the attitudes of rest of tank. Matter of fact, I didn't experience any "killer aggression" from anybody, but the jags were borderline psychotic. I found keeping fish WELL-fed and temps on low side helped with aggression, at least in short term. And yes, I suppose I COULD easily breed less than full-sized adults in smaller tanks, but that's not my goal. I want to keep the fish as adults.
Yes, will have plenty of dividers, as well as isolation tanks if necessary on hand. That is my worst fear...raising a nice pair over time, then having one killed by mate, and finding myself with a huge tank with a single fish that doesn't play nice with others.
Thanks for the input, will adjust my notes accordingly.
Crawling Chaos

 

[Nolapete]

A good baseline for large ca/sa cichlids is minimum 5 gallons per inch of each fish with 10 gallons+ per inch of each fish being optimal.

In example,

Male CA 7" 7x5= 35 7x10= 70
Female CA 6" 6x5= 30 6x10= 60

Tanks MIN 65 Optimal 130 (125/135)

The other consideration is floor space. A 6' 110 is much better than a 4' 110 show.

The multipliers can and should be adjusted to account for aggression and tank decor.

My suggestions are based on an environment suitable in my experience for breeding pairs to raise fry to free swimming before I remove them.

 

[Rbishop]

Looks reasonable provided they may need an increase as they mature. I'm assuming you are not just talking breeding older pairs, but as grow out at the same time?

 

[Nolapete]

Yes, it's a guide. If you're growing out pairs, then just substitute the expected adult size instead of actual size.

It's also a good idea, as you probably know, to grow out 6-12 sub-adults together and let them naturally pair off.

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

If you are truly serious about breeding these fish on the scale you are talking about, then I would scrap the idea of having any tanks, less one or two for displays.

For breeding CA's or any other cichlids for that matter, I would strongly suggest Rubbermaid tubs in the size of 300g. I currently use 65g for corals...see pic...

300g tubs are taller and a little wider. You can build wood stands out of 4x4's to hold the weight. Just make sure you use bolts and not screws to fasten together.

Set them up on a central system for combined volume of water anywhere from 1,000g to 2,000g for seriously stable water quality. Use large 36-40w UV sterilizer on return pump. One Hammerhead pump will pump whole system.

The sump tank can house fast growing live plants to help control nutrients.

For dividers in the tubs all you need is egglite crating wire-tied to PVC pipe legs.

With the tubs you are not looking for glamorous but Practicality. You can plumb on smaller tubs for holding/conditioning tanks and even smaller tubs for grow out tanks for fry.

This option should be considered if breeding is your true goal.
HTH, Rich