Moorish Idol

I am going to stick by my convictions, but squid is certainly within his/her rights to keep the Moorish Idol. kbaker, I don't think that it is recommended to keep them, unless you have a large amount of experience, and some coralline algae and sponges in your tank will help the acclimation process, if such a process is possible with your particular specimen.

I would love to see much more research and many attempts to synthetically replicate those food sources before Moorish Idols are tank-kept, and tank-rearing and captive breeding would make me feel much more comfortable.

Again, it is your call as to whether or not you keep a Moorish Idol, but, if you do, have some sponges and coralline algae in your tank and I truly would wish you the best of luck.

P.S. Upon re-reading (OMG, I did reading, somebody shoot me for doing that...), Scott W. Michael considers there to be a chance of survival in captivity for these beauties, but a slim one (he gives them a 2/5 on his scale...5/5 means well-suited to captivity, and 1/5 means almost impossible to keep in captivity).

He also doesn't recommend them for anyone other than experts.

squid, if you are an expert, I apologize for talking down to you about this issue.
 
Originally posted by inxs
I think since Squid is speaking from experience, his comments are more valid then "I've heard" or "I've read".
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Are you speaking from experience or what youve read? I offered but one example of someone advocating the opposite of the advice offered by Squid. I submitted this as evidence to suggest that neither case could demonstrate any solid proof of care suggestions.

Furthermore he is trying to be helpful by sharing his experience which may help others .
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As are we

I understand the argument that their natural foods and habitat needs to be duplicated and captivebred stock should be developed to improve the survivalrate but:

Since both Slipknottin and Childawg doesn't believe in trying to keep fish which have a poor survivalrate, think about this - In the beginning of the hobby the survivalrates of almost all fish was low and the SW hobby was almost a guarantee that you would only have your fish temporarily. If everything had been abandoned right there and then a lot of fish and other animals would have been saved, right?
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I have never stated that nobody should attempt to keep difficult fish. I have said that these fish are very demanding and do require expert care.

There is a difference between someone indiscriminently throwing a mandarin, seahorses, cleaner wrasses in a FO tank and has them die over and over vs someone who is trying to accomodate a specific species needs and documents it. The second person is trying to advance the hobby and is supplying some information to help things along.
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Ah, so as long as you believe the intent is viable. So you would have no problem with me keeping a mandarin, seahorse, or cleaner wrasse in a FO tank as long as I was attempting to 'advance the hobby and supply information'?

If you don't have experience with something don't bash others who do and are trying to do something positive.
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I never bashed anyone, I stated that an individual isolated experience means little compared to advice from those who have handled thousands of stock.
 
Slip - you did say that "That you advocate feeding the fish only brine shrimp for quite a period of time shows little knowledge of their natural eating habits."to squid who managed to keep a moorish idol alive for 18 months which he was documenting to help answer a question.

As far as natural foods go I know of no species that eat flake and pellet food in the wild but that is besides the point and just shows how you can take anything and argue it.

Most newborn fish and fry are raised on newly hatched brineshrimp which are more nutritious then the adults however to acclimate a fish and get it to start taking food it may be neccessary to start it of with something it will take - even if it is brineshrimp . Furthermore a week to two is not a long time.

If you want to further the success you might want to advocate gutloading the brineshrimp some enriched food and perhaps sponge. Or maybe there is a way to get them to take sponge? I don't know.

As for the mandarin, seahorse and cleanerwrasse it has been documented many times how and what difficulties you will run into. So that experiment has already been conducted if however you could add something to the equation and improve the success rate you are doing something positive. The cleaner wrasses removal from its home reef impacts the echosystem and isn't just related to problems keeping it in the tank but let's say you decide to develope some sort of contraption that hatches copepods and crustatians under an undergravelfilter that are slowly being distributed into the tank - now you may have solved the problem.

What I'm trying to say is : take someones success and try to build on it.
 
Guys,

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion on this. I stumbled onto this board about a week ago and have found everyone's comments to be largely respectful and helpful. Differing viewpoints are what make discussions worth having. I thank God that we do have a diversity of experiences, knowledge, and opinions, and that we are not all Orwellian droids.

ChilDawg, I agree with you and I am also committed to the philosophy of being responsible aquarists and providing the best environment and diet possible for our fish. About being an expert, I believe that the only true expert is God Almighty, creator of heaven, earth, and all life. I am 45 years old. I started my first SW aquarium at age 33. I'm not a marine biologist by any means, and there is still much I don't know about the complexities of the marine world. I do, however, have some experience born of many mistakes and successes.

Regarding the Moorish Idol thing. Once acclimated and established as the dominant fish mine was willing to eat anything I offered. I provided a wide variety of foods including angel fish formulas with sponge, nori, shrimp, brine, mysid, flake, pellet, dried krill. I soak most foods in Kent Zoe. The live rock in the tank provided a steady supply of macro algae, and a variety of 'pods. I am of the opinion that if you have the experience and are willing to give it the time, research, and resources necessary the Moorish Idol (along with other delicate marine species) may be a viable fish option. If you are not experienced and committed then stick with the many other varieties of beautiful and hardy marine life.

Keep in mind that not so many years ago the keeping of SPS, and LPS corals was generally viewed as foolish and impossible for the home aquarist. Now with much time, trial, error, experience, and learning they are not only thriving, but also being propagated by home aquarists. And for the betterment of the whole marine keeping lifestyle I might add.

jmho
 
Okay, then I am sorry for having made such a big deal out of the Idol: you were speaking from experience, and you have had a good length of time in the SW hobby. I am glad that the discussion returned to intellectualism rather than the tense near-flames it had almost hit.

I realize that the corals mentioned above were at one time considered very tough to keep, and consider the experimentation done with regard to keeping them to have culminated (well, hopefully not CULMINATED) with positive results.

Looks like you can teach me a thing or two about the SW hobby. I hope that you stay here for a long time so that many others can benefit from your expertise.
 
To squid

If was your first Moorish idol you did good with 18 months. Usually mostly they perish after 2 max. 3 months. Me personal I have at the present two Morris idols leaving in may reef tank for the past two years with a pair of Spotted Mandarins (Synchiropus picturatus) and one Regal Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) The spotted mandarins spawn already twice, 3 fries survived . I started up a tall 65 gallon tank 5 years ago, just fish for one year then I converted over to reef tank. Two years lather I put the Moorish idols in. I have 5 mangrove plants a lots of caulerpa, seaweed or blade (prolifera), feather (ashmeadii), grape (racemosa) and some shaving brush (penicillus capitatus) on the rocks and the glass, 65 pound live sand 90 pound live rock. When I converted over to reef tank I build a 15 gallon refugium to hang in the back of the tank with fine sand,mud and live rock pieces some caulerpa and tons of bugs. I grow sponges in the sump (35 gallon), not the fancy ones. I feed them with freshwater mysis shrimp (crude protein 65.5 %) sponges and the rest from the tank.
I hope this will give you some hints squid. anywise you did a good job keeping him so long, you my bee one of that peoples who vill start breading them in tanks so same day the rest of as will have tank breaded moorish idols.

For slip just in case,

"However, these are not the proper fish to sell to anyone who has a less than stellar track record, as evidenced by their dismal success rates."

I started my first fresh water tank in 1974 first salt in 1981 My father was fish breeder in late 60-s and 70-s Angel, Diskus, Neon,
 
Welcome to Aquaria Central! The biggest issue with them is believed to be the collection method. They don't do well during collection which leads to their untimely demise, which is usually within 2-3 months post collection. I had tried one like 3 years ago and got him to eat and happy and established, no changes, then all of a sudden came down with ich and was gone. Have never tried one again and never will cause that is one fish that should remain in hte ocean.
Slip isn't around any more...this thread is 3 years old :)! Anyway hope this helps and good luck and welcome to Aquaria Central!
 
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