more cycling question

M

mrmcmasty

Mark
Feb 8, 2005
116
0
0
50
VA
I am in the process of trying to fishless cycle my tank.

55g tank, temp holding at 74.

I added around 8ml of amonia... tested it and got no reading. So I added 5ml more... still got no reading. I am assuming that I either screwed up the test or did not add enough (but that seems like plenty based on the reading I have done). Then I seeded the tank with the gravels from the LFS. (this was last night)

This morning I found that I have 2 snails and little floaty things. Yeah little floaty things, they are 3/8 of inch long with 5 little arms at the end... I am assuming the pet store water was contaminated (@#$%!$) What do I use to kill them?

When I tested my water this AM I found that my PH had dropped from 8.8 to 7.6 and my ammonia levels were still undetectable (I am going to buy a new tester today) My nitrate and nitrite levels registered as 0. So I redosed the tank with 8ml of amonia and left for work.

ANY advice? ANYONE?

Additional Question??? is my mechanical filter (topfin 60) enough for my tank or should I look into getting another one?
 
Last edited:
Okay, trying this again...

The floaty things are Hydra. You can be rid of them by raising the temperature to 40oC (or about 106oF) and holding it there for 30mins. Since you've got no fish in the tank, it's easy.

Other suggestions:
http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/hydra.html

Yes, gouramis will eat them, but only get a gourami if you want a gourami, and do all the research that would normally precede a fish addition. Don't just get it for the one task, because once the hydra are gone, then you're stuck with a fish/critter that may or may not mesh in your tank.

As for the ammonia, mix a 50/50 water/ammonia solution and test that. It should send your kit way off scale. If it doesn't, either the kit is defective, or you're not doing something right. Also, try taking a water sample to your lfs, they should test it for you for free, see what their test shows and compare it to yours.

Until you can confirm or refute that your kit is working, cut back your NH3 dosing to half. The drop in pH potentially indicates nitrification, but without seeing any NO2 or NO3, it's doubtful.
 
You will not see any nitrites for a few days and no nitrates for close to two weeks. When you start getting nitrates you know you are getting near the end.
 
Last edited:
Still cycling, what do I do when AMonia spikes?

Tank still holding temp (74) no matter where I turn the dial on the heater!?!? must be a piece.

I figured out the amonia test... it was an operator error. Now the trouble is my amonia levels are through the roof... like 8ppm. How do I get the levels back down? water change?

Also I have found a dozen or more snails in the tank from the seeding bag from the LFS... they are tiny little critters some of are the size of the letters I am typing here... they are not a problem are they?

Thanks again for everyone's help, this place is great.
 
I would do a 50% water change tonight and then another one tomorrow and then re-test. Don't mess with your filter at all during the cycling process, it can only slow it down. Snails won't be a problem unless you have live plants. Some species will eat plants.
 
I'd do water changes to get your ammonia back in the 3-5ppm range. 8ppm probably won't hurt anything, but if that's as high as your kit reads it may actually be much higher.

Most snails aren't a problem, I have snails in all my tanks. The most common snail problem people post about is that they have gillions of them, this is usually caused by overfeeding. If you start seeing tons of them, then you'll know something is wrong.
 
I will ditto the water change suggestion.

Do back to back 50% changes and retest. The optimal range of ammonia (NH3) is around 4-6ppm during the fishless cycle.

BEFORE you add NH3 to your tank, test the water to find your NH3 levels. If your levels are more than 6ppm, skip that days dose.

I am currently in a fishless cycle and have a thread about it here http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43274

I too have a 55g and added 2 tbls NH3 to bring my readings to 6ppm. It took 2 days before they dropped to 4ppm. If I had blindly added NH3 to my tank each day, I would have overdosed my tank and possibly killed most of my seeded bacteria.

You may also want to order some new equipment. If the heater wont heat to more than 74degrees, youll need a new one. While your at it, shop for another filter. Either one to add to or replace the one you've got. Look for a filter with a gph rating of at least 10times your tanks capacity. On tanks larger than 40g, I advocate 2 smaller filters instead of 1 bigger filter.
I would recommend 2 Aquaclear 300's or 500's...one positioned on each side of the tank. And a heater of at least 250W....Jebo Jager is my pick for a heater.
 
Thanks for everyone's help. GSK that is a great thread thanks for the link.

I have water changed... Amonia is down between 3 and 4 now... I am patiently awaiting nitrites.

LOL, My wife thinks I am crazy... She has labeled me the mad chemist. Also, she has called the LFS and they keep telling her to buy "hearty fish" or "goldfish" to "jumpstart" the tank. They have also told her that we wont be able to add any more or less fish by fishless cycling so why bother...

The heater problem is fixed I think... the knob was spinning but there was a little screw on top that was loose, so the knob was turning but it wasnt having any affect. Temp is now at 76 (and it corresponds to the dial)

I will look into filters... what does anyone think about biowheels?

So is my PH (7.6 - 7.8 this AM) is this too high?

Snail update... I counted them this AM there were a minimum of twenty... the biggesst is the size of a smiley and the smallest are the size of the letter "o"... are these things multiplying or what???

thanks again for all of the info.
 
I started with one, i now have about 50, ill be sticking a loach or 2 in there for a week or 2 from my 55 gallon, that will do it.
 
First off, don't stress about the snails, they're good for your tank, they're scavengers, eat algae, fish wastes to some degree and they add a level of biological complexity to the micro-ecosystem you're trying to build. Their populations are easyto control, if they start breeding like mad, cut back feeding. Right now they're likely making due off stored resources and any detritus that came with the lfs gravel.

Hearty fish and goldfish do not jumpstart your cycle. All they do is provide a source of ammonia, among other chemicals. They also provide some heterotrophic bacteria in their wastes, but these are not the nitrifiers that you're looking for. Nitrifiers require O2 and the lower end of the digestive tract is an anoxic, reducing environment, not conducive to oxidation of NH3.

They are correct that you cannot add more fish, a fully stocked tank is fully stocked no matter how you cycle. However, by going fishless you don't have to have a "cycle" fish as part of your stock. I normally skip the moral part because I think that it's the weakest of the many good arguments in favour of fishless cycling, but the other option of buying a fish to cycle, then bringing it back to the store when you're done with it sucks. Either the fish just has a miserable existance of being repeatedly exposed to toxic conditions, or some unsuspecting customer is going to end up with a weakened fish.

However, once you're done your fishless cycle, you can fully stock your tank. You will have sufficiently large nitrifier colonies to support more than your full stocking load. That doesn't mean that you should overstock, just that you've got a good safety buffer. The colony size will die down to your stock's ammonia production levels withing a day or two.

The LFS gravel may or may not help you much, btw. Most nitrifiers are in the filters. If you can get some filter sponge squeezings from them, bring a tupperware container or something, you'll be well on your way. Get them to give the sponge a good rinse, heck, offer to buy them a new sponge for their filter in exchange for the old one. Just make sure that the fish in the tank are healthy, you wouldn't want to import disease.

Keep an eye on your ammonia levels, keep them at 3-4ppm and you'll be well off.

Your pH is perfect if it's stable, but don't worry too much about it at this juncture. You're adding a weak base (ammonia) to the water, which is bound to raise pH a little, plus you're driving nitrification as hard as you can, which will lower pH, so some bouncing around is perfectly normal.

Fill a small glass with tap water and leave it on the counter overnight. In the morning, test pH and KH (well, you can test this right away). The pH you measure in the morning is your CO2 equilibrium pH, it's what you can expect your tank pH to be before any in tank chemistry happens to alter it. It gives you a baseline to judge what's happening in the tank.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom