Can anyone suggest a mouth breeder species for beginners, please include suggested tank size etc.
Thanks
Thanks
Mouth Breeders
- Thread starter sassybandit
- Start date
Sure...
Get yourself a group of common mbuna like the kenyi. Set up a 30 or 40 gallon breeder and add about 6 fish in there. Don't worry about sexing them, it will pan out. Ideally you should keep a single male and atleast 4-5 females. Extra males may keep their female coloration, but won't breed. This set up worked for me for years. I used about 100lbs of river rocks sittin on sand as the only decorations.
Rich
Get yourself a group of common mbuna like the kenyi. Set up a 30 or 40 gallon breeder and add about 6 fish in there. Don't worry about sexing them, it will pan out. Ideally you should keep a single male and atleast 4-5 females. Extra males may keep their female coloration, but won't breed. This set up worked for me for years. I used about 100lbs of river rocks sittin on sand as the only decorations.
Rich
When i first started a few years ago, i had a 15 gallon, and a pair of fuelebornis, male and female, easy to tell the difference (male blue, female yellow), they had about 25 fry and raised the fry, i then moved the adults into a 40 gallon and raised the fry myself. i did nothing to help them in breeding, all i had was a pot and correct water parameters. very easy to breed and reccomended for the beginner.
mysis said:
Fulleborni's reach 8", keeping them in a 15 gallon is cruel, even when they are smaller.
ALSO fullborni males are only sometimes blue and the females are NOT yellow, so most likely they were'nt fulleborni's. You likely had saulosi or johanii (in which case they dont get as large, but 15 gallon is still way too small for them). Unfortuneatly with mbuna people think that just because they are breeding they are happy, which is totally not true.... because they will breed in the worst of conditions. Equally, this makes them really easy to breed (well, some species).
For mbuna I reccommend at least a 55 gallon tank. A 30 gallon with kenyi's is asking for trouble, since they can be really aggressive with each other. (Also.... they are larger fish - they need a larger tank!) Keeping them in something small long term is just not good fishkeeping husbandry IMO. Although, its to each thier own. Its up to you to provide the best possible home for your fish.
So cichlids from lake malawi would be a good choice for you. There are also other african cichlids such as "egyptian mouthbrooders" that you could try, that are apparently really easy to get to breed.... they will breed in terrible water conditions.
Check out http://www.malawimayhem.com for more info on the Malawi Cichlids.
-Diana
do you intend to breed them or just have some good looking africans? if you go for breeding be carful with some types of melanochromis as certain ones are very simaler (m. auratus and m. chipokee: there is only minor differances betwwen size,tail pattern a head shape. other than that they are identical) Male M. johanni look great and get to 5".
i disagree with you guys, maybe the tank was a bit small, but i think a 40 gallon would provide quite a lot of space for a pair of mbuna cichlids. and yes the fish were definately fuellebornis, go do a google search and you will see female fuelleborni at YELLOW!!!!! and the males BLUE!!!!! so unfortunately you are wrong. I think most cichlids are quite easy to breed, especially the malawi's, and some of the others. There are also some marines that are easy to breed and practice mouth breeding, just incase you were intrested i thought i should mention it.
Get Mbuna's they breed easy I have a 90 gallon tank with A 5 inch female holding her eggs and 2 1/2 inch albino male this is my first african cichlid mating.
~*LuvMyKribs*~ said:
While, I normally tend to agree with you, we differ here. While I will agree that surviving and much different than thriving, I have yet to see scientific evidence of fish being happy... If breeding is the goal, tanks with a 36" x 18" base are optimal IMO be they 30, 40, 50 or 65 gallons. 12-13" wide tanks can can cause issues with aggression, though, with over crowding, it can be achieved.
As far as breeding in the worst conditions, I have seen some weird things, esp with convicts...but for every poor condition I have seen, there has been a lucky attribute to balance it out. Breeding really is an indicator of success, both for the fish and their keepers.
-Rich
tuthelimit said:
I was talking to a lady once who went to the local university (UBC). She was in biology (im not sure what department) and she was telling me after seeing my tanks how they used to have tanks and tanks of egyptian mouthbrooders. They were part of an experiment I believe, i'm not sure, but the tanks were filthy. They were left unchecked and uncleaned for a long time, likely due to everyone being so busy. The water level was half and everything was filthy. And they bred like rabbits! The fry were in such bad conditions they didnt even survive... but the parents kept breeding.
Some animals will breed when the conditions are poor in order to have a 'last shot' at getting thier offspring into the world.... after all... thats what drives every animal on the planet... spreading the genes. Parental investment is extremely important to mouthbrooders since the females invest a lot of time and effort into getting her fry raised to an age that they can survive on thier own, which is part of the reason why it is so easy for us.
So no, I do not agree that breeding is a sign of success as a fishkeeper. I think a sign of success is when your fish are living a long life free of diseases and other issues. When they can live in a tank without the fear of being harassed to death by other fish. Of course breeding is something 'happy' fish will do, but IMO it should not be used as an indicator that you are doing everything right and your fish are 'happy'. I use the human emotion because we can relate to it... if you want I can play scientific.
Overstocking only works in tanks less than 75 gallons. You need the length of the tank to allow the aggressor to loose sight of the victim... if its anything less than 4' that cant really be done. No amount of rockwork and fish you cram into a smaller tank will 'distract' an aggressive male from beating on his female, or another male. Even in my way overstocked 90 gallon my dominant male fulleborni will chase the sub around and around and around.
I DO NOT reccommend for ANY beginner to start out with a small tank, and attempt to cram aggressive species into it. It MAY work for you, having experience dealing with species and tank aggrangement, but it most certianly will be a disaster for one just getting into the hobby and cannot 'read' the language of the fish.
A breeding tank of approximately 40-50 gallons is perfect... but that would be for 1 male and 4-5 females. Up to 50 gallons you could probebly get in another group..... when you get over 75 gallons removing the female from the tank to get her babies becomes a challenge.
I just did a google search... and I failed to see one single yellow female. I found OB females, which is what they usually are, which are varying degrees of orange, but no yellow. My blue male is not too common in the hobby these days, as usually they are OB males. :OT:
And I did not say 40 gallons was too small for a pair, I said 15 gallons was. I said 30 gallons was too small for 6 kenyi, which are one of the most aggressive common mbuna.
Anyways.... a little more than I wanted to say, but I needed to clear things up. What YOU GUYS might do is not nessecarily what you should reccommend a beginner to do.
-Diana
Diana said:
That is an unfortunate but interesting situation, a lot of things can be learned from it.
Diana said:
Good point.
Diana said:
I think it is important to remain formal in these type of discussions. But, I too like to think my fish are happy
Diana said:
I am assuming you ment, over stocking only works in tanks OVER 75 gallons? Chasing isn't a bad thing, fish that are harrassed into corners however, is bad.
Personally, I dislike mbuna community tanks, they always seem to get out of hand if breeding is a goal. I over crowded a 40 breeder with multi-generational fish while waiting to sell them. It slowed production way down, but the population balanced out and it became a very cool display.
Diana said:
Agreed
Diana said:
See, here is where tank dimensions take reign over pure volume. You go not give me a 50 gallon hex... useless imo. Tall show tanks are bad, be it 15, 30, 60 gallons. The overall floor print determines stocking levels from a pure gas exchange perspective.
Diana said:Anyways.... a little more than I wanted to say, but I needed to clear things up. What YOU GUYS might do is not nessecarily what you should reccommend a beginner to do.
I made beginner mistakes, which I can only assume to be common. The reason I post on this board is to help others to avoid them. Proven methods work for a reason.
I do have to say, my suggestion of kenyi was not the best, it just happened to be the first 'common' mbuna that popped into my head. They do have a worthy reputation. A cyno species would be fun, if you can find one.