My Calvus Surprised me Today...

Pittbull said:
When Lake Tanganyika was still forming way back when Gods ruled i wonder who put black, white, yellow calvus in the same lake or could it have been that there were originally 2 fish that came together and formed the others, just a thought.
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This is not how color variants occur in the wild.

Pittbull said:
Hey roger don't take this personal hybrids have been here long before us and i understand what you are saying as well.. as well as the information being supplied to others and honestly afro doesn't even know if they are different as well and by the photos i would reach out on a limb and say they look alike:dance:
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I have owned white, black, and some yellow thing I bought back before I thought a store would have gotten hybrids from some place (probably someone who thought theye were going to destroy them, then had a change of heart) and I would say that one is white and one is black.

Pittbull said:
Hey afro dude if you don't want me to get rid of them in which case i wouldn't anyways, i wont and if it happens to be that i need to clear the calvus out i will destroy them because if they get into the wrong hands it could spell certain doom for all of the thousands of fish hybrids in circulation today even goldfish dating back to the early times, whew..:devil:
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This is the attitude more serious hobbyists hate. There are so many, why do my two or three matter??? Everyone has two or three and despite what you say, at the end of the day no one likes to kill another living creature unless they have to eat it, put it out of its misery, or keep it from harming someone.

Here's how the ACA feels - http://cichlid.ipbhost.com/lofiversion/index.php/t3204.html
 
you have your opinions i have mine, you say two different color variations of calvus that spawn produces a mutt i don't believe so, i do however don't believe in the parrots or flowerhorns and the genetic engineered color and dyed fish, and i have sadly ended a couple of animals lives being in law enforcement due to public safety and aggression and is how i earned my nickname pittbull and i have the scars for it and no i do not enjoy euthanizing an animal, but as for what the more serious hobbyist hates well isnt up to them and they have their opinions as well, i dont cross breed or have done so in my 22 years of fish keeping i think its funny to hear folk get rawled up over such an issue and its a battle we will never get ahead of there is going to be alot of hybrids out there unless they make it illegal and send me out to bust down doors for it, but all in all i am just like this and no i am not saying you shouldnt comment, but as for afro he made a comment me and him were talking about than you get a serious person like yourself and tell him he should destroy and never let his fish out i know you mean well but thats the whole issue it would be like me pulling you over giving you a ticket for speeding than at the last minute give you another one for having an ugly car and telling you to get rid of it and get another one, its opinions, any rate i'm having fun here with you, take care my friend and dont be so serious hehehe..
 
Mixing two color variants doesn't result in a hybrid. A black Altolamprologus calvus bred with a white Altolamprologus calvus still produces pure calvus offspring. Color variations do not constitute a hybrid...
 
No one is saying that calvus x calvus = calvus is incorrect. what results is not a naturally occuring fish color variant. Plain and simple. These two do not cross in the wild. The white only exist in one place and the black in several, but in no places do they cross habitats. If you take the time to read my links, they refer to a hybrid in the wild. The article referenced brings it up not to point out that hybrids occur in the wild, but that the rarity of finding such a thing warrants an article.

I don't expect to change any minds here, just point out what is the accepted policy by cichlid experts and the American Cichlid Association as per the cross of color variants. Finally, since we are best friends now :) I would like to tell you that the period button is right next to the comma button :)
 
Hmm... good debate going on here. Wasn't what I had in mind when I started the thread, but it's been informative all the same.
I think that in time, the need for hobbyists to refrain from mixing color strains of some fish will become more and more important, as we see these fish disappear from the earth.
On the other side of the coin, many of the most popular fish in this hobby are a far cry from their naturally occuring color variations. Ever seen a wild caught Betta? Doesn't stand a chance against the man made varieties. I'm not saying that this should become common practice throughout the hobby. Only that in some areas it's tolerated and even celebrated, while in others it's frowned upon.
I don't think that anyone is going to change anyone else's mind here, and that's fine. Personally, I feel okay in giving a few fish of mixed color varients to a friend for personal use. I would not feel okay giving them to a breeder or a store. And that's all I got to say 'bout that.
 
roger wrote:
Finally, since we are best friends now :) I would like to tell you that the period button is right next to the comma button :)
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Thanks buddy for the heads up on the comma and period issue. Albeit said, thanks for the knowledge and information you have provided on this thread. Take care.


afro wrote:
Hmm... good debate going on here. Wasn't what I had in mind when I started the thread, but it's been informative all the same.
I think that in time, the need for hobbyists to refrain from mixing color strains of some fish will become more and more important, as we see these fish disappear from the earth.
On the other side of the coin, many of the most popular fish in this hobby are a far cry from their naturally occuring color variations. Ever seen a wild caught Betta? Doesn't stand a chance against the man made varieties. I'm not saying that this should become common practice throughout the hobby. Only that in some areas it's tolerated and even celebrated, while in others it's frowned upon.
I don't think that anyone is going to change anyone else's mind here, and that's fine. Personally, I feel okay in giving a few fish of mixed color varients to a friend for personal use. I would not feel okay giving them to a breeder or a store. And that's all I got to say 'bout that.
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Agreed 100% Take care buddy. Stay in touch and let me know if you need anything.
 
jpappy wrote:
Mixing two color variants doesn't result in a hybrid. A black Altolamprologus calvus bred with a white Altolamprologus calvus still produces pure calvus offspring. Color variations do not constitute a hybrid...
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I agree with you jpappy, i guess i took roger wrong because i thought he was saying two different color variants made it a mutt fish. Yes roger i did read those links and i get what was being said and honestly its the same debate here as well with mixed feelings just like in those other links. cool information everyone take care.
 
rogersb said:
No one is saying that calvus x calvus = calvus is incorrect. what results is not a naturally occuring fish color variant. Plain and simple. These two do not cross in the wild. The white only exist in one place and the black in several, but in no places do they cross habitats. If you take the time to read my links, they refer to a hybrid in the wild. The article referenced brings it up not to point out that hybrids occur in the wild, but that the rarity of finding such a thing warrants an article.

I don't expect to change any minds here, just point out what is the accepted policy by cichlid experts and the American Cichlid Association as per the cross of color variants. Finally, since we are best friends now :) I would like to tell you that the period button is right next to the comma button :)
Click to expand...


But calling the cross a 'hybrid' is absolutely incorrect, which was my point. Hybrids are a mix between species, not geographical variants, at least in my mind (;)). A calvus X comp mix would most certainly be a hybrid, however. That being said I do absolutely agree that this cross wouldn't most likely not occur in the wild.
 
That shell is too small for her, but it's the only one she's interested in. I'm starting to think she's too young yet. She's interested in flirting, and house shopping, but I don't think she's quite of age yet. Maybe another month or so....

Should I leave the shell she likes in there? I'm thinking I should just take it out and provide plenty of larger shells.
 
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