I have the soccer game on and most tank lights are still off, so I have not checked today. There id a good reason for doing the [plop and drop with FW fish at least. I have the prefect paper for you on moving zebra danios from hard to soft water and what acclimation really is.
Craig, P.M., Wood, C.M. and McClelland, G.B., 2007. Gill membrane remodeling with soft-water acclimation in zebrafish (Danio rerio). Physiological genomics, 30(1), pp.53-60.
(I am only quoting the first paragraph of the Abstract. I will post the link to the full Absrtract and paper. I have underlined key text)
The point here is that if conditions are such that actual needed changes in the biochemical values inside the fish to adapt to the new parameters will take a week or two. So what do we think happens in a 15 minute or even a few hour acclimarion will do?
Moreover, in many fish studies the fist step is to acclimate the fish to the lab water. This may be done for as much as several weeks. Why would science wait several weeks were it nit the needed time for true acclimation? Understand that this form of acclimation is often done over days gradually when it is needed,
Finally, there is other biochemistry at work in fish transport. The first part of this happens before the fish are shipped. Fo all byt the very smallest/youngest fish to be shipped it is important to do a purge. This involves not feed for a day or two befoore shipping whihc allows the fish too get a lot of the poop out of its system before being shipped. This also minimizes how much poop still might get produced in transit. This reduce the ammonia that such poop can create.
A great ammonia creater is every time the fish exhales. This is how most ammonia isi excrreted. So all during the trip ammonia is bring created in the bag water. Fortunately, when the fish "exhales" it also releases CO2 into the water. This acts to lower the pH. The lower the pH, the less toxic any ammonia in the water becomes. So, as the fish travels these two things tend to balance out.
The longer the bags are in transit, the more ammonia is made and the lower the pH and the fish stay mostly safe. But what Happens when we open the bag? Gas exchange- oxygen goes in and co2 comes out. And as that Co2 comes out the pH of the bag water rises and turns non-toxic ammonia toxic. This is not theory, this is scientific fact. The longer the fish are in transit, the more important it is to get then out of the bag water ASAP after it is opened. Hence plop and drop.
I was taught by a friend who imported and bought wholesale and resold online to plop and drop. This person was osing up to 25% of imports when she was acclimating them. She was told to stop it. Her loss rate dropped to close to 5% when this was done.
Finally, there is a reason I have preferred to buy imprted or wholesale with the help of friends. I got the new red lines because I am down to 4. Mine are 5 inches and old and I have been gradually losing them. My last batch was acquired as imports and from the wild. Rhe buy was 50 at 2 inches and I took 35. I paid about the same price as I did for the recently purchased 6. But the risk of importing was they came with a few having columnaris. I treated the group and lost only one.
Here is the conundrum when buying fish. We want to pay as little for any fish as we can but we also want to get them in the best condition possible. Too cheap and you will likely lose some or all. Too expensive and healthy may mean you cannot afford them or at least not as many as you may want. Because of what I built up to doing in the hobby. Most of the fish I have purchased in the past 12-15 years have been very expensive- $100s/fish. When doing this DOAs are no fun.
Going back to my recent purchase which is the subject of this thread. I only spent a little over $200 which is not all that much relative to what I normally spend. Plus I pay for new fish from selling fish I have had born in my tanks. So while I am unhappy o have lost any of the order, financially speaking it is not a big concern. Bear in mind I am 74 and a lifetime of working etc. mean I can afford these things. When I got my first tank $5 was a lot to spend for a fish for me.
So I lost at least 4 more shrimp and 1 espei, I will not put in a claim for a refund. Taking pics of the fish and submitting the claim was more of a PITA than the $16 I would get back. I do not use a smart phone so for me it has to be done with my digicam, moved to the PC and then I have to spend time tilling out the claim form. I would rather have the time than that amount of money. I am pretty sure I would get the refund had I submitted.
Part of this whole process was driven by curiosity. I have heard aboue Live Aquaria fish on sites and I also met the WetSpot folks at a weekend fish even in 2003. Their prices are higher but their shipping may be better. I do have a local fish store whose fish I will risj skipping Q on depending into which pf my tanks they are going. They have a superb selection of fish in excellent shape. But the prices they xcharge reflect that fact. They actually are now selling a few fish on Aquabid and the prices are too high.
The shop is House of Fins in Greenwich, CT. Here is one listing they have on Aquabid. Leopard frog pleco (P. compta). The fish is listed at $220 and shipping at $70. Shop around and you will find more like 3-4 of them delivered for that price. Wet Spot even offers them them for $85-$100 based on size.
Craig, P.M., Wood, C.M. and McClelland, G.B., 2007. Gill membrane remodeling with soft-water acclimation in zebrafish (Danio rerio). Physiological genomics, 30(1), pp.53-60.
(I am only quoting the first paragraph of the Abstract. I will post the link to the full Absrtract and paper. I have underlined key text)
full paper: https://journals.physiology.org/doi...jkey=0e0761615a8a2d19ae1330103710509d7e03eadbAbstract
Little is known regarding the ionoregulatory abilities of zebrafish exposed to soft water despite the popularity of this model organism for physiology and aquatic toxicology. We examined genomic and nongenomic changes to gills of zebrafish as they were progressively acclimated from moderately hard freshwater to typical soft water over 7 days and held in soft water for another 7 days. Gills were sampled daily and mRNA expression levels of gill Na+-K+-ATPase (NKA) α1a subunit, epithelium calcium channel (ECaC), carbonic anhydrase-1 and 2 (CA-1, CA-2), Na+/H+ exchanger (NHE-2), V-type proton (H+)-ATPase, and copper transport protein (CTR-1) were quantified by real-time PCR. Changes in enzyme activities of gill NKA were determined and protein levels of NKA and ECaC were quantified by Western blotting. Levels of mRNA for ECaC increased fourfold after day 6, with an associated increase in ECaC protein levels after 1 wk in soft water. CA-1 and CA-2 exhibited a 1.5- and 6-fold increase in gene expression on days 6 and 5, respectively. Likewise, there was a fivefold increase in NHE-2 expression after day 6. Surprisingly, CTR-1 mRNA showed a large transient increase (over threefold) on day 6, while H+-ATPase mRNA did not change. These data demonstrate a high degree of phenotypic plasticity in zebrafish gills exposed to an ion-poor environment. This not only enhances our understanding of ionoregulatory processes in fish but also highlights the need for proper experimental design for studies involving preacclimation to soft water (e.g., metal toxicity).
The point here is that if conditions are such that actual needed changes in the biochemical values inside the fish to adapt to the new parameters will take a week or two. So what do we think happens in a 15 minute or even a few hour acclimarion will do?
Moreover, in many fish studies the fist step is to acclimate the fish to the lab water. This may be done for as much as several weeks. Why would science wait several weeks were it nit the needed time for true acclimation? Understand that this form of acclimation is often done over days gradually when it is needed,
Finally, there is other biochemistry at work in fish transport. The first part of this happens before the fish are shipped. Fo all byt the very smallest/youngest fish to be shipped it is important to do a purge. This involves not feed for a day or two befoore shipping whihc allows the fish too get a lot of the poop out of its system before being shipped. This also minimizes how much poop still might get produced in transit. This reduce the ammonia that such poop can create.
A great ammonia creater is every time the fish exhales. This is how most ammonia isi excrreted. So all during the trip ammonia is bring created in the bag water. Fortunately, when the fish "exhales" it also releases CO2 into the water. This acts to lower the pH. The lower the pH, the less toxic any ammonia in the water becomes. So, as the fish travels these two things tend to balance out.
The longer the bags are in transit, the more ammonia is made and the lower the pH and the fish stay mostly safe. But what Happens when we open the bag? Gas exchange- oxygen goes in and co2 comes out. And as that Co2 comes out the pH of the bag water rises and turns non-toxic ammonia toxic. This is not theory, this is scientific fact. The longer the fish are in transit, the more important it is to get then out of the bag water ASAP after it is opened. Hence plop and drop.
I was taught by a friend who imported and bought wholesale and resold online to plop and drop. This person was osing up to 25% of imports when she was acclimating them. She was told to stop it. Her loss rate dropped to close to 5% when this was done.
Finally, there is a reason I have preferred to buy imprted or wholesale with the help of friends. I got the new red lines because I am down to 4. Mine are 5 inches and old and I have been gradually losing them. My last batch was acquired as imports and from the wild. Rhe buy was 50 at 2 inches and I took 35. I paid about the same price as I did for the recently purchased 6. But the risk of importing was they came with a few having columnaris. I treated the group and lost only one.
Here is the conundrum when buying fish. We want to pay as little for any fish as we can but we also want to get them in the best condition possible. Too cheap and you will likely lose some or all. Too expensive and healthy may mean you cannot afford them or at least not as many as you may want. Because of what I built up to doing in the hobby. Most of the fish I have purchased in the past 12-15 years have been very expensive- $100s/fish. When doing this DOAs are no fun.
Going back to my recent purchase which is the subject of this thread. I only spent a little over $200 which is not all that much relative to what I normally spend. Plus I pay for new fish from selling fish I have had born in my tanks. So while I am unhappy o have lost any of the order, financially speaking it is not a big concern. Bear in mind I am 74 and a lifetime of working etc. mean I can afford these things. When I got my first tank $5 was a lot to spend for a fish for me.
So I lost at least 4 more shrimp and 1 espei, I will not put in a claim for a refund. Taking pics of the fish and submitting the claim was more of a PITA than the $16 I would get back. I do not use a smart phone so for me it has to be done with my digicam, moved to the PC and then I have to spend time tilling out the claim form. I would rather have the time than that amount of money. I am pretty sure I would get the refund had I submitted.
Part of this whole process was driven by curiosity. I have heard aboue Live Aquaria fish on sites and I also met the WetSpot folks at a weekend fish even in 2003. Their prices are higher but their shipping may be better. I do have a local fish store whose fish I will risj skipping Q on depending into which pf my tanks they are going. They have a superb selection of fish in excellent shape. But the prices they xcharge reflect that fact. They actually are now selling a few fish on Aquabid and the prices are too high.
The shop is House of Fins in Greenwich, CT. Here is one listing they have on Aquabid. Leopard frog pleco (P. compta). The fish is listed at $220 and shipping at $70. Shop around and you will find more like 3-4 of them delivered for that price. Wet Spot even offers them them for $85-$100 based on size.