Mycobacterium Marinum

[sosgal721]

I am trying to determine if any of my fish have mycobacterium marinum and since I unfortunately don't have a lab I am trying to research and compare. The problem that I keep running in to is that there is very little reliable information on the subject. Almost everything that I have found is what someone has heard or what they think is going on, and not what they know is going on.

So my question is, has anyone had a fish with mycobacterium marinum that was confirmed with some sort of test?

 

[Lupin]

I encountered mycobacteriosis before. The diagnosis was confirmed only after a series of researches and treatment over a few months in my desperation to contain what I initially thought was bacterial infection. May I ask what fish you have that are suspected to be affected or affected? Which tank in your sig is affected?

There is no way of telling what strain of mycobacterium you have unless you can conduct lab tests of course as you mentioned. According to my researches, there are about ten species that exist with about three strains commonly found around the trade. It still does not make any differences.

 

[sosgal721]

I encountered mycobacteriosis before. The diagnosis was confirmed only after a series of researches and treatment over a few months in my desperation to contain what I initially thought was bacterial infection. May I ask what fish you have that are suspected to be affected or affected? Which tank in your sig is affected?

There is no way of telling what strain of mycobacterium you have unless you can conduct lab tests of course as you mentioned. According to my researches, there are about ten species that exist with about three strains commonly found around the trade. It still does not make any differences.

The 55 freshwater tank is the one that I am mainly referring to, with the livebearers being the afflicted, but if I have it somewhere, then I probably have it everywhere. I originally suspected it when I was just set up the 55 and was still quite new to the hobby. The problem at the time was that fish were dying unexpectedly and even after everything settled down, and no new fish were added (at least by me) there would still be one or two seemingly healthy fish that would die every week or two.

Other signs are the usual symptoms that can be attributed to several other problems like lethargy, bent spines, bumps, ulcers, protruding gills(by this I mean that their gills extend while breathing almost like they could move enough water to swim just by using them, but the breathing does not appear labored), and swimming problems. Of particular interest is that generally any given fish will only have one of the aforementioned problems, with most of the fish being completely fine.

 

[wataugachicken]

i definitely do not KNOW for sure, but you may be able to either enlist the help of a local agricultural department or school (SUNY?) that would have a lab able to test for the bacteria.

 

[Lupin]

The 55 freshwater tank is the one that I am mainly referring to, with the livebearers being the afflicted, but if I have it somewhere, then I probably have it everywhere. I originally suspected it when I was just set up the 55 and was still quite new to the hobby. The problem at the time was that fish were dying unexpectedly and even after everything settled down, and no new fish were added (at least by me) there would still be one or two seemingly healthy fish that would die every week or two.

Other signs are the usual symptoms that can be attributed to several other problems like lethargy, bent spines, bumps, ulcers, protruding gills(by this I mean that their gills extend while breathing almost like they could move enough water to swim just by using them, but the breathing does not appear labored), and swimming problems. Of particular interest is that generally any given fish will only have one of the aforementioned problems, with most of the fish being completely fine.

All symptoms mentioned happened similarly to my case with the exception of ulcers and bumps. Symptoms were associated to dropsy with the addition of spinal curvature in some cases which I initially had thought was strange along with labored breathing.

Fish afflicted will not altogether die but will die one by one as they make contact with the afflicted fish by cannibalism, urea, feces, etc. There is no way you can stop this. The only solution is total destruction of all fish affected and possible carriers along with the total changeover of the tank. All equipments used should not be in contact with the affected tank for precautionary measures.

 

[sosgal721]

i definitely do not KNOW for sure, but you may be able to either enlist the help of a local agricultural department or school (SUNY?) that would have a lab able to test for the bacteria.

I go to RIT so that might be an option, it would just come down to finding someone to come to my house and help me get a sample or waiting for a fish to die.

All symptoms mentioned happened similarly to my case with the exception of ulcers and bumps. Symptoms were associated to dropsy with the addition of spinal curvature in some cases which I initially had thought was strange along with labored breathing.

My problem is trying to rule out other problems like genetic defects. I have two guppies that have bent spines that were both born in the tank at the same time (and they look identical, so I am assuming same mother) that quite possibly could be a result of inbreeding. There are two mollies that in particular exhibited the gill flapping that were born at the same time(again, look very similar). Then there are two other mollies that I know are from the same mother since they were born the day after I bought her and no other mollies were in the tank at the time; these two are almost a year old, but since they were little have been unable to control their swim bladders and as a result have their favorite perching spots. These two also have the flapping gills, but I think that might be more to do with the fact that they are thinner than the others(although given their troubles swimming are still very active at finding food).

Fish afflicted will not altogether die but will die one by one as they make contact with the afflicted fish by cannibalism, urea, feces, etc. There is no way you can stop this. The only solution is total destruction of all fish affected and possible carriers along with the total changeover of the tank. All equipments used should not be in contact with the affected tank for precautionary measures.

I guess what I am looking for is some consistency in what fish in a tank with mycobacterium will do. Constantly dying is obviously is a clear sign, but I would have expected that more would have died by now given the number of fish in the tank, or that more fish would develop deformities, not just having new fish born and by the time they are big enough to look at closely noticing deformities.

 

[sosgal721]

I guess what I am looking for is some consistency in what fish in a tank with mycobacterium will do. Constantly dying is obviously is a clear sign, but I would have expected that more would have died by now given the number of fish in the tank, or that more fish would develop deformities, not just having new fish born and by the time they are big enough to look at closely noticing deformities.

Any comment on this Lupin?

 

[Tim S]

Just be carefull sticking your arms/hands in a tank you think might have mycobacterium. Especially if you have any open cuts. I used to wash dishes at a local restaurant, I sliced my finger on a food processor blade and later in the wekk clean some fish/calimari. 3 months later I have ulcers/ bumps on my finger exaclty where I sliced my finger open. Well 2 trips to the dermatologists and 2 skin biopsy's later they determined I had mycobacterium marinum. 6 months more of antibiotics and it finally cleared up. Just a heads up.

 

[Lupin]

I guess what I am looking for is some consistency in what fish in a tank with mycobacterium will do. Constantly dying is obviously is a clear sign, but I would have expected that more would have died by now given the number of fish in the tank, or that more fish would develop deformities, not just having new fish born and by the time they are big enough to look at closely noticing deformities.

Okay, to answer this, a fish should appear to be suffering from dropsy. Yes, protrusion of scales, popeye and open mouth (that the mouth cannot even cloe) are often prominent in the early stages. Later on, the fish becomes very listless gasping on the surface a lot and in most cases, even trying to swim around fast as if struggling to keep still.

They will not die as fast as most of us expect. They suffer slowly and will eventually after a few days of being listless. A week or two is about all the time they have once they are on the early stage. When a fish dies and you fail to remove the corpse, obviously, they will cannibalize the body thus ensuring the bacteria remains and continues the cycle of death. But even this is not enough, organic wastes such as their feces and urea are another. Once they come in contact to it, you will notice they will slowly develop symptoms as they areslowly weakened. Healthy fish are bound to carry them and if they are lucky, they will survive and will remain as threats to other fish but at the same time, suffer while carrying with them the hazardous pathogens.

Furthermore, I had been very observant with my own fish. I conducted a research about this on several websites and encountered a site I had never seen before. It is Home of the Rainbowfish if I can remember the title of the site right. It gave a very detailed explanation that the juveniles who carry the Mycobacterium will not show any symptoms until in the later stage which is to say adult stage. I found this finding shocking since I had raised my praecox for several months and managed to spawn them on almost daily basis but found myself later on to see them drop one by one showing symptoms I've described above.

I simply could not believe what had happened and simply thought it was bacterial infection so I treated with meds intended for bacterial infections not knowing what they have was more dangerous I had ever thought. In the next few months, I was given plenty of surprises when I see more fish drop one by one. I foud out later on the exact cause and made up my mind to destroy all fish in the main tank and rebuild. This is one thing that almost made me gave up the hobby but I keep telling myself I shouldn't give up so easily while the rest of my tanks are simply doing well.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lupin]

Just be carefull sticking your arms/hands in a tank you think might have mycobacterium. Especially if you have any open cuts. I used to wash dishes at a local restaurant, I sliced my finger on a food processor blade and later in the wekk clean some fish/calimari. 3 months later I have ulcers/ bumps on my finger exaclty where I sliced my finger open. Well 2 trips to the dermatologists and 2 skin biopsy's later they determined I had mycobacterium marinum. 6 months more of antibiotics and it finally cleared up. Just a heads up.

Good advice. I had to admit being extremely wary as well when I had this stupid outbreak a few years back. This proved to be the most challenging and the darkest time in my hobby.