Need Advice for Sick Rainbowfish

Kivstev

Kivstev

AC Members
Mar 19, 2009
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Greetings. Great site you have here. Hopefully someone with more experience than I can help out. Here is my situation:

One of the Boesemani Rainbows I purchased from the LPS was infected either with a mouth fungus or Flexibacter (Columnaris). He had a cotton like substance in his mouth and nose area and seemed to have difficulty breathing. I noticed it as soon as I got him home. I'm betting the stress of the move is what initiated the symptoms because he did not look ill an hour before. My bet is on the Columnaris. In any case the one died within 24 hours in the hospital tank. The remaining 3 Rainbows are not eating too well and have very red gills as the lone symptoms. The 2 Kribs seem to be doing fine. I've included some camera phone pics of the Boesmani's.

I am treating the whole tank with Maracyn2 and Tetracycline which should cover any Columnaris and secondary bacteria that remained. Any other ideas on what could be going on with the reddish gills? Are there any other treatments I should consider for the current problem. I am only on Day 2 of the antibiotic treatment. As noted below I do not have an ammonia problem and I have added extra aeration. Thanks for any suggestions.

My parameters:

Tank size: 55 Gallons
pH: 7.2
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10
tank temp: 74F 23C

807d2f4f9ebf.jpg b6ea8eda1cb3.jpg
 
WELCOME TO AC! ;)

Oftentimes LFS order these guys by demand due to shipping mortality and high cost. Did the LFS just get these in for you, or very recently?

To be honest, the first thing that hits me when I see them (great pics btw), is ammonia/pH poisoning from shipping. The water in the shipping bags, especially if there are too many fish/long trip, builds high levels of pH and ammonia quite quickly... :( Rainbows seems to be one of those species that does poorly when shipped.

As for the infection, it's too bad they are in the main tank, but regarless I would be very tempted to ring them back to the LFS. Their quality is not accecptable IMO. Irregardless of what happens, the ammonia poisoning, even if they fully recover, will perminnently effect them, which usually results in a much shorter life-span (among other potential issues down the road).

P.S.
If it is a fungal disease, no amount of antibacterial meds will help, but only weaken and stress the fish further. IDing the diseas is critical, and once identified target that.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identification_1.html#FUNGAL
 
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Thanks for the reply (and to Bitbot for the bump). Lots of good info. The 'not so' LFS did not order them for me. They did put all four Rainbows in a single plastic fish bag. The two Kribs I bought are fine. I told them I had a long trip of an hour or so and they said they would be fine.

The only affliction I think that they may have is 'Red Gill Disease if it is not some type of ammonia burn.

When I returned the first one, they would only offer me an 'exchange'. I told the I was not interested in that since the fish out of the tank were most likely sick. They then offered a 'fish credit' and not a cash refund. They would not even let me buy merchandise with the 11 bucks - they said it was only for fish. :mad2: This is a well known tropical fish store in Framingham, MA.
I think that I am going to take your advice and ring them up tonight and ask to speak to the manager.

EDIT: I just spoke to someone there at the store and they said that there is no way ammonia could have built up in the amount of time it took to get them home. He said that I do not have enough salt in the tank, but my pH is good. He also said they would give me 1/2 credit if I take them back within a week - a 1/2 'fish credit'. He also said he would most likely put them back in with their Rainbows to 'clear them up'. He then said that it was something in my tank that the fish do not like, even though they were like this when I got them out of the bag. I'll keep treating the until Sunday and if they don't clear up - back they go.

ct-death said:
WELCOME TO AC! ;)

Oftentimes LFS order these guys by demand due to shipping mortality and high cost. Did the LFS just get these in for you, or very recently?

To be honest, the first thing that hits me when I see them (great pics btw), is ammonia/pH poisoning from shipping. The water in the shipping bags, especially if there are too many fish/long trip, builds high levels of pH and ammonia quite quickly... :( Rainbows seems to be one of those species that does poorly when shipped.

As for the infection, it's too bad they are in the main tank, but regarless I would be very tempted to ring them back to the LFS. Their quality is not accecptable IMO. Irregardless of what happens, the ammonia poisoning, even if they fully recover, will perminnently effect them, which usually results in a much shorter life-span (among other potential issues down the road).

P.S.
If it is a fungal disease, no amount of antibacterial meds will help, but only weaken and stress the fish further. IDing the diseas is critical, and once identified target that.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identification_1.html#FUNGAL
Click to expand...
 
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The hour to your house would have been fine, even considering the acclimation of another 1-2 hours to get them into the tank once home... I was more refering to the overnight shipping (or more) that it took to gte them to the LFS.

Salt is not good for Australian Rainbows FYI

I would up your WCs to ensure excellent water quality and like you said keep an eye on them for a few days.

Also, most LFS have a similar policy for exchanges, but most offer a 100% refund for the first 3-5 days, same species swap for the 1st week or 50% fish credit, and a few I know offer 50% credit for 2 weeks although rare.

I'm in S. NH
 
OK I misunderstood. The bosemani's had no reddish gills at the store - just one dead in the tank which I did not get a chance to look at. But I'm pretty sure what the deal was. Lesson learned.

I'm doing 40% WC's now every day for a few days.

One of the remaining 3 Boesmani's developed some 'cotton' on his nose today - they are all going back tomorrow. I've done my best to try to treat them. There is no doubt that these fish were infected before I got them as my tank was clean - no matter what the LFS tries to tell me. Like I said one of the fish had the 'cotton' right out of the bag and it took the others a day to get the 'red gill' which I believe to be a secondary bacterial infection of some kind.

Personally, I don't like salt in my tanks even if these are not Australian Rainbows. I like to keep some Plecos and most experts feel salt is not good for those fish. The LFS suggested the salt so I gave it a shot. I was probably a little pi$$y at the LFS cuz the try to tell me that it is my tank even though one was sick from the get go.

I'm now wondering if I should take down the whole tank and start over.

I'm in S. Mass - relatives live in S NH. Thanks for the info.

ct-death said:
The hour to your house would have been fine, even considering the acclimation of another 1-2 hours to get them into the tank once home... I was more refering to the overnight shipping (or more) that it took to gte them to the LFS.

Salt is not good for Australian Rainbows FYI

I would up your WCs to ensure excellent water quality and like you said keep an eye on them for a few days.

Also, most LFS have a similar policy for exchanges, but most offer a 100% refund for the first 3-5 days, same species swap for the 1st week or 50% fish credit, and a few I know offer 50% credit for 2 weeks although rare.

I'm in S. NH
Click to expand...
 
Update

Now my Kribs are coming down with the Flex. :headshake2: Long streaks of cotton coming from the mouth of one.

I called the LFS to let them know. They had taken the other Rainbows back and gave me 1/2 credit. Believe it or not, they planned on putting the returned fish BACK IN THE TANK with the other Rainbows!!! I objected to that, but they said they could watch them easier from there. I let the manager know that the tank should be quarantined, but the manager still says that it is an incompatibility between the fish and my tank!!! :swear:
I said that I don't use half the salt they use and just because the symptoms are not there does not mean the fish do not have Columnaris. One of their fish in the tank had a small white pimple on the lip area, but I couldn't tell what is was. I also reminded him there was a dead fish in the tank when I bought it. The manager gave me a small dissertation on 'FUNGUS' - to which I told him he better research Flex because it is no fungus and those fish are most probably infected. He told me he would give me credit for the Kribs, and I said I could care less about the credit and he should quarantine those fish!

This really p*sses me off because those fish are still on sale and could potentially ruin many other tanks and people's pets!!! I guess they are the experts and I'm just someone who is misguided.
 
I definetly wouldn't go back!!!

Unfortunately, the tnak sounds infected? Does the appearance sound like this:


Mouth Fungus
Symptoms: White cottony patches around the mouth.

Mouth Fungus is so called because it looks like a fungus attack of the mouth. It is actually caused from the bacterium Chondrococcus columnaris. It shows up first as a gray or white line around the lips and later as short tufts sprouting from the mouth like fungus. The toxins produced and the inability to eat will be fatal unless treated at an early stage.
 
The Rainbow that originally came down with it had those exact symptoms. He was dead within a day.The one's at the LFS did not have that as of yet... but some did have the tuft on the nose and very red gills now like the one I had that died. I believe when the fish are stressed by moving them they will show symptoms like you posted. I feel horrible for anyone who buys those fish, but what else am I to do?

The male Krib I have in my hospital tank came down with the cotton mouth (like strads of cotton coming out of his mouth from the throat area) two days ago and would not eat. I immediately started salt dips and treated with Maracyn 2 this time instead of tetracycline. His 'cotton' symptoms are now gone!!! He is even eating a little again. :dance: I also picked up some Kanamycin should I ever have another problem with this. Supposedly that is 'the drug' for Flexibacter. I also took down my main tank and bleached it out. I will NEVER buy another fish without 2 weeks in the isolation tank. Another lesson learned.
 
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