New 180 gallon upgrade from 65 gallon freshwater

Tabs are useless in large gallon tanks because if its cost effectiveness. Having to dose a tab per 10 gallons, repeating 5 days is going to be a lot. With that amount of money, you can buy a bottle of medication to last you a couple treatments.

What is your current reading of settled tap water WITH OUT the ph balance? You say its high, but just how high is it? Some natural alternatives to ph lowering are tannins and peat moss. they might tinge your water a bit but the fish love it.

Your tap water filter is killing harmful bacteria and pathogens that might have been introduced through the irrigation. Don't worry about losing bacteria through that, your tank and replenish itself. Theres also no need to overdose with the dechlorinator as the recommended amount does to job well. Be careful with the amquel and other ammonia/nitrate/nitrite removers. Overdosing can lead to lower oxygen levels and result in suffocating your fish.

The "Start Right" bottle you picked up is just another dechlorinator made by Jungle Labs thats supposed to be in the same market as Stress Coat. Both products have a dechlorinator and a slime coat promoter. I personally recommend Stress Coat or Prime over the Start Right product. Stress Coat OR Prime can be the only conditioner and water change buffers you need.

It is not possible to over-aerate a tank but you can introduce too much water movement or current.

My recommendation still stays the same.
-Figure out if you need to ph adjust the water. Testing sink water immediately after collecting it will give you false readings.
-Stop using so many chemicals. The constant fluctuation in levels will stress out your fish and not allow your tank to cycle. The only thing you need to use is the dechlorinator
-Instead of trying to remove the excess ammonia chemically, do a water change. Big more small, its going to be 10x more effective than dumping bottles into your tank.
 
I agree, less chemicals and more water changes. And only rinse the filters and media in tank water that you have syphened out during a water change. If you rinse them in the sink with tap water you will kill all the beneficial bacteria.
 
water changes workin great thanks for the answers and advice, ph level in tap stays well above my little color chart which tops off at 7.6 im guessing with the color scheme my ph is probaly at 7.8-7.9 in my tap water. Changed over 50% of my 180 gal and introduced bacterial stress zyme, and some stress relief with aloe. Fish thriving doing great, no longer gasping for air. (im no longer over dosing the fish on amquel) And by the way all the fish i got from wal-mart survived their introduction into my freshly re-setup 65 gal, im thinking its because we never full drained the 65 gal and it had enough bacteria in the water i left in it to cater to the new fish i put in. But my Bala with ich died fortunately the 2 groumaiis and the pictus catfish i put in didn't get any ich i did put quick relief in the tank when i quaranteened the bala. Tanks doing great thanks even gave the pictus catfish a couple tank buddies cuz he looked lonely but now lively with two friends. Thanks for all the help setting up a third octagon tank now, monitoring everything closely no more fatalities for my fish.
 
Whats Velet all about. Finding Yellow spots around the gills of my 2 older blue Groumaiis should i finish setting up the octagon and try to quarantine them? Im unsure what to do they are the only fish starting to get it.
 
My two cents on large tanks, PH buffering etc. Don't waste your time with adjusting PH. you are gonna cause more harm than good by trying to adjust it, all while not knowing the specific chemistry of your water Dh, Kh etc. PH has little to no effect on the fish as long as it's not at obvious extremes.

My tap water comes out at 8.3. That's very high for central and south American cichlids and catfish, but mine have been alive for years, and not just surviving but thriving. I even use marine salt to add more trace elements that increase the alkaline buffering capacity of the water. But that is only to counter the acidity of my extremely high bioload.

Just use prime to treat the tap water, don't adjust PH, keep the temp where it belongs, do waterchanges to not only lower the ammonia as it cycles but also to replenish necessary trace elements, and feed sparingly.

Most new hobbyists over do and over think everything, so much to the point where they get in over their heads and overdose, over treat, over medicate and over react to everything.

Take everyones advice and have fun with it and keep up on waterchanges. Oh, did I mention waterchanges?
 
Maverick85 said:
Whats Velet all about. Finding Yellow spots around the gills of my 2 older blue Groumaiis should i finish setting up the octagon and try to quarantine them? Im unsure what to do they are the only fish starting to get it.
Click to expand...

Get a hold of being able to keep your fish healthy before you go and set up more tanks.....

Velvet is a fungal infection causing the fish to have a furry white coating.
Use your 60 gallon as a QT and get ALL your fish healthy.
Turn up the heat on your 60gal to 80f and add some AQUARIUM salt to help the fish get better.
Let your 180 cycle.
Don't waste your time and money setting up a hex just yet.
Why do you feel the need to have so many tanks?

Please don't disregard things we say which you don't like. We speak from experience and are only trying to help you.

(gourami)
 
Wow. I would agree with all the advice you've gotten so far. Stop trying to treat everything. The fish are suffering more from all the changes in water chemistry than they would have in walmarts scummy tanks. I'm no fan of walmart carrying fish, but they are safer right now than the tanks you have set up.

First, until beneficial bacteria colonies are established (and it takes about 3-6 weeks) your tanks are going to have lethal levels of ammonia and nitrite. You can combat this by changing out up to 50% of the water at a time. The only chemical you need to do this is the regular water conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramine. Try to make sure the temp of the water you add is close to the the temp of the tank.

Stop overdosing the ammonia lock products. Not only do they delay the cycling process, but they can also (from what I've heard) cause oxygen deprivation in the tank water, which could asphyxiate your fish. Don't use the pH products either. Walmart isn't, and the fish are used to walmart's tanks. Fish stores won't either. The truth is, fish desire a stable pH more than a specific pH. There are a very few breeds that you really need to concern yourself with pH, and walmart won't carry anything that high-dollar or complicated to keep.

The stress you've put the fish in is probably the reason so many diseases are hitting you. Walmart fish (in my area IMHO) are disease carriers anyway, and you're stressing them with an uncycled chemistry set, causing them to start losing any battle with the disease. Also, think about the fact that whatever fish you get from walmart could potentially infect your fish you already have, making your tanks no safer. If you want to buy from walmart, you need a quarantine tank to hold fish in for a few weeks till you're sure they're not going to infect the other fish in your tank. It needs to be cycled as well.

I would ask you think of it this way: Save a few fish and make their lives really nice, rather than trying to save every fish (because you can't)

No one here is trying to put you on the spot, but you need to slow down and learn a lot in a short time to keep the fish you already have. Buying any more fish before you learn these things is going to cause no end of trouble for your tanks, and put your fish through more pain.

None of us like fish-stores treating fish poorly, either.
 
Don't really think the Gourami in the 180 gal really have any problem it doesnt look like a furry white coating more like just one yellowish brown spot only on his right side behind the gill on upper side the other looked like he had like two little ones in almost the same spot but now they look like dark spots, ulcers maybe im not too sure. Want to get a hold of a good smart phone with a nice camera and post some pictures online for you. Roomate told me Gourami are mid-level fish but they seem to be hanging at the top now in the back right corner of the tank really starting to scare me. Going to continue 50% water changes but i just did one and actually lowered the ph in the whole 180 gal to round 7.5 when i know it was pretty high before probaly round 8.3 need bigger color chart mine only test from 6.0 to 7.6 probaly all i need to guess plus i didnt know what ph level the fish were surviveing in when they lived in the 65 gallon tank but i know they were too big unhappy rubbing up against any little aquarium decorations because the erradecent sharks are too big for the 65 gallon. From what i've read so far from you guys i understand now probaly shouldnt be screwing with the ph in the tap and just try to dechlorinate the water with the conditioner probaly just buy that expensive start right stuff by tetra and just use that. Wondering now if i should even attemt to change the water anytime soon. Ive already agitated the fish apparently the gourami specifically in my 180 gal tank, so changing the water too soon back to original ph levels will proabaly anger them more. And after i used a 20 btl of that tetra right start when i did my last 50% change the fish just seemed happier and the water started looking like aquarium water should i guess with a little cloudiness in the water signafiying a enuf bacteria to create a stable enviroment. I dont know, ive been around people who have taken care of aquariums all my life my aunt dated a guy that worked at sum fish store and started several saltwater tanks. Her neighbor presently has like 5 freshwater tanks. she no longer has her saltwater tanks. Now i live with a roomate that was tanks he really has no time to take care of and i dont think he really took care of them to his full capacity especially after he upgraded to the 180 gal. I had nothing to do with the fish until they all started dying so im of the belief even with my crummy know how and lack of wisdom on the whole situation with your help i could make this right. Just let me know what im doing wrong i dont care if you point out how dumb i really am lol. Just please help because i have none right now, it seems like no one my age cares about taking care of their pets or animals anymore or at least the people i know. I hav a heart im just trying to help the fish so help me help them. Now going to send you lots of detailed pic soon give you a baisis to work on, it will include pics of all the chemicals i have on hand all my tanks all my fish all my worries and all equipment being used. Appreciate your feedback soon, pics coming soon bear with me.
 
Sounds good. I'm sure everyone here would love to help. We weren't all trying to beat up on you, because we all started knowing nothing and I'd say almost every one of us killed some fish by accident. We just wanted to slow you down, because many chemicals are unnecessary and can even make things worse.

If you want to get something to help yourself, I'd recommend getting an API Freshwater Master Test Kit. It will tell you what is going on with this cycling stuff. Basically fish produce ammonia, then after a while a bacteria colony will start that will convert the ammonia to nitrite. Then another bacteria colony will convert the nitrite to nitrate. Ammonia is very toxic to fish, and burns their gills, nitrite is nearly as toxic, as they can't absorb oxygen as well. Nitrate is the least toxic. You'll see the ammonia level rise on a brand new tank when fish are first added, then gradually, after a week or two you'll see it converted to nitrite, so you'll have low, or no ammonia, but nitrite will rise. After another few weeks the second bacteria colony will convert nitrite to nitrate and you'll see it rise as nitrite drops. Eventually you'll want to keep 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and less than 40 ppm nitrate in a good tank. While cycling change enough water to keep ammonia and nitrites below 1ppm each. Then just change enough water weekly to keep nitrate below 40 (usually 20% weekly).

Fish rubbing against things is a bad sign.. usually that the water is too toxic, or they have a parasite like ich. I'd add aquarium salt, raise the temp to 85f, and test and change your water daily as needed. While cycling it is really bad to have to add meds. Do you have heaters in these tanks? Make sure you have a thermometer to check the water, as the heaters that tell the temp usually lie. The little glass ones with the sucker thing are usually pretty accurate and a couple of dollars at walmart.
 
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