New ADF Owner! Help! Clueless!

[Slipfox]

Hi there, my infant daughter recently received a 2.5G (10L it seems) tank, two African Dwarf Frogs, a bunch of plants, gravel, and what have you for her birthday five days ago. The person that gifted these things assembled the tank for us plants (fake) and all and tossed our new pets into the water (after tap water conditioning with AquaPlus). I have reason to believe after doing some research on these little dudes that this setup may not be ideal, nor is it safe for them. I googled the buddies and couldn't find any one source that is definite on what I need to do to take care of them properly.

Right now we are feeding them Bloodworm tabs, and they seem quite happy. One of them is quite lazy, and one quite active. Neither seem to be suffering from any ailments and both eat regularly. I am a COMPLETE aquarium newbie, but I want what is best for the little dudes, and I want to have them around for quite some time.

So, my questions!

1) Tank Cycling: Do I need to do this? How do I do this? Many of the articles about ADF's don't mention it. I don't have any equipment to test the water, the only thing we recieved other than the water conditioner was 'Cycle' - which says it maintains a healthy tank and reduces loss of fish(?).

2) Tank Filter: Do I need a tank filter? Again, most sites say I don't require one, but I am not so sure.

3) Tank Size: It is a small tank. Do they need more room? What is recommended? Can I cycle a new tank and keep them in the current? (Do I have to cycle?)

4) Gravel or Sand: I read that they like to dig holes in sand to sit, and I wonder if its better for them. I also read that they can ingest it while they eat, which is bad(?).

5) Fish = Frog?: Many articles and sites about aquarium health only mention fish. Is it safe to assume what is good for a fish is good for my ADF buddies as well?

6) Water: How often should the water be changed in this tank? Are partial changes okay? What do I do with the frogs while I change the water? What is safest and best for their well being during this process? How do I make sure the water is okay to go into the tank and how do I get the buddies back inside afterwards without disturbing them too much?

7) Equipment: What else do I need? Right now we have the tank, the two little bottles of tap conditioner/cycle stuff, and frozen bloodworm tabs. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I don't really trust the robots that work at Petland to get me setup correctly.

I have already resolved to replace all the plants with silk counterparts, and to add a few more hiding places for the buddies.

Okay, so please please get back to me as soon as possible, I don't want these little guys that have captured my heart to get sick! The last thing I want is to be a bad frog owner!

Thank you in advance, sorry for the length.
Yours,
Ryan.

 

[7itanium]

ANSWERS IN RED

Hi there, my infant daughter recently received a 2.5G (10L it seems) tank, two African Dwarf Frogs, a bunch of plants, gravel, and what have you for her birthday five days ago. The person that gifted these things assembled the tank for us plants (fake) and all and tossed our new pets into the water (after tap water conditioning with AquaPlus). I have reason to believe after doing some research on these little dudes that this setup may not be ideal, nor is it safe for them. I googled the buddies and couldn't find any one source that is definite on what I need to do to take care of them properly.

Right now we are feeding them Bloodworm tabs, and they seem quite happy. One of them is quite lazy, and one quite active. Neither seem to be suffering from any ailments and both eat regularly. I am a COMPLETE aquarium newbie, but I want what is best for the little dudes, and I want to have them around for quite some time.

So, my questions!

1) Tank Cycling: Do I need to do this? How do I do this? Many of the articles about ADF's don't mention it. I don't have any equipment to test the water, the only thing we recieved other than the water conditioner was 'Cycle' - which says it maintains a healthy tank and reduces loss of fish(?).
Yes you need to cycle the tank.. there are several ways to do this.. but since you already have the animals in the tank your a bit limited. you need to pick up a liquid water test kit to do so.

or.. you can pick up a bit bigger tank if you desire.. and do a fishless cycle on that tank while doing daily water changes on the current tank to keep the levels steady-- whichever you prefer

here is a great guide on tank cycling

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

2) Tank Filter: Do I need a tank filter? Again, most sites say I don't require one, but I am not so sure.
Many pet stores will tell you no.. but the correct answer is YES. in order to cycle a tank at all it really needs to have a filter in order for bacteria to grow on it.. which in turn is what removes ammonia, nitrite, and other things from the water

3) Tank Size: It is a small tank. Do they need more room? What is recommended? Can I cycle a new tank and keep them in the current? (Do I have to cycle?)
2 ADFs will be borderline OK in a tank that size... a bigger tank would be a bit better-- but your not doing horribly here as long as you get it filtered.. and heated

4) Gravel or Sand: I read that they like to dig holes in sand to sit, and I wonder if its better for them. I also read that they can ingest it while they eat, which is bad(?).
They might LIKE sand a bit better... but gravel isnt going to hurt them

5) Fish = Frog?: Many articles and sites about aquarium health only mention fish. Is it safe to assume what is good for a fish is good for my ADF buddies as well?
This is probably ok to assume as a general rule.. but there are a few things that frogs need more specifically

6) Water: How often should the water be changed in this tank? Are partial changes okay? What do I do with the frogs while I change the water? What is safest and best for their well being during this process? How do I make sure the water is okay to go into the tank and how do I get the buddies back inside afterwards without disturbing them too much?
The amount of water, and frequency that you change it will all depend on what your water test results indicate. generally a partial water change with conditioner, about once a week is suitable- but in a smaller tank like this twice a week MAY be required. you will need to determine a routine depending on the results of your water test.

I wouldnt take them out... just get a siphon hose, and suck about half the water out and then refill with them in there... this is usually an acceptable method

7) Equipment: What else do I need? Right now we have the tank, the two little bottles of tap conditioner/cycle stuff, and frozen bloodworm tabs. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I don't really trust the robots that work at Petland to get me setup correctly.

You will need the following...

A heater (not an ADF expert.. but im pretty sure they need tropical temperatures)

A LIQUID water test kit (DO NOT FALL FOR THE STRIPS>>> THEY SUCK)

A filter (a small air powered sponge filter would be ok.. but the more filtration the better generally)

also keep in mind that adding a couple of LIVE plants can help keep your water conditions pristine while cycling

I have already resolved to replace all the plants with silk counterparts, and to add a few more hiding places for the buddies.

Okay, so please please get back to me as soon as possible, I don't want these little guys that have captured my heart to get sick! The last thing I want is to be a bad frog owner!

Thank you in advance, sorry for the length.
Yours,
Ryan.

 

[msjinkzd]

Does the tank have lights? What is your ambient temperature of your house? I have found that in my small (5g and under) tanks I don't need a heater except in the winter. The lights keep them in the tropical range because of the ambient temp of my house. Also wanted to say excellent job in looking for information even though you are not having issues with your frogs. I think they would be ok in the tank you have but honestly must say, the larger the tank the easier to maintain. If you picked up a 10g, you could also add a few fish after its cycled which your daughter and yourself may enjoy even more. A good resource for adf's is www.pipidae.net. Welcome to aC and best of luck.

 

[nene]

First, take a breath. O.K. Most of what you need to know was covered in the previous posts. As far as filtration DAF's dont like turbulent water so whatever you get adjust the flow to low and put some artifical floating plants in the help reduce the turbulance. They dont like bright lights. Use low light or give them lots of places to take shelter from the light when they want to- caves made out of the little terra cotta flower pots, drift wood etc. I alternate feeding mine frozen blood worm and frozen brine shrimp. The easist way is to put a small dish on the floor of the tank and use a tweezers to put the thawed food on the plate. It took mine 2 days to learn where to go to eat when they heard me taking the tank top off. And finally, Relax and Enjoy.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

I have two ADFs I keep in my cycled 60 tank with a community of 21 fish. They are probably the least worrisome creatures in my tank and take care of themselves quite well even with high daytime water currents from pumps and air stones, mine actually use the air stone current to elevate to the surface for a gulp of air. The only issue with them from the beginning is feeding as they cannot compete well with fish. However they are trainable and mine know when they see the turkey baster with blood worms to head to the nearest corner behind the plats where they receive in privacy a mouth squirt of worms which they gulp down. I got the idea of using the turkey baster from a competent moderator over at the Fish lore forum named Lucy.

 

[mel_20_20]

Hi Slipfox. Welocome to AC. Let me just say up front that you are AWESOME!
You have made a commitment to doing your best for your new little ADFs. Also,
you couldn't have come to a better place than AC for helpful support, and encouragement.

I have two ADFs I've had since June of this past year. I have a 10 gallon. They are fat as mud and healthy as can be. I'm not an expert on aquaria or amphibians, not yet, lol, but I would like to share my experience with you.

The advice you've been given so far is excellent, but I would like to add just a bit from my experience.

1) Tank Cycling: Do I need to do this? How do I do this? Many of the articles about ADF's don't mention it. I don't have any equipment to test the water, the only thing we recieved other than the water conditioner was 'Cycle' - which says it maintains a healthy tank and reduces loss of fish(?).

The majority of aquarists on AC use PRIME as water conditioner. Prime not only removes chlorine and chloramines, but it also detoxifies ammonia and nitrites. This is HUGE, especially as a noobie with a tank that's not cycled.

Cycling the tank can take several weeks. As you go along during the cycling process, testing every day, you will find elevated levels of ammonia and nitrites (which should be kept as clost to 0 as possible, but certainly .25 or less) and you will need to do water changes to get them out.

In an emergency situation you can dose your tank with Prime and it stops or prevents injury and illness, giving you a little more breathing room to to the water change.

Prime detoxifies for appx 24 hours, so you still must do the water change within that time, but this can really help if you are rushing out to work, or late at night and exhausted. You can do the water change the next day and your frogs will be safe.


2) Tank Filter: Do I need a tank filter? Again, most sites say I don't require one, but I am not so sure.

Definitely agree you need a filter. The stick on cycling explains the biofilter aspect of filtration and the benefits.

Tank Size: It is a small tank. Do they need more room? What is recommended? Can I cycle a new tank and keep them in the current? (Do I have to cycle?)

I think 10 gallon will be great because part of the charm of these guys is the way they zoom around the tank. Fat little bodies with legs and arms (I call them arms, lol) just propelling them around the tank.

Also, you don't want to go with a tank taller than a 10 or 20 long or longer, just not tall. It makes them work extra hard to swim to the surface for air.

4) Gravel or Sand: I read that they like to dig holes in sand to sit, and I wonder if its better for them. I also read that they can ingest it while they eat, which is bad(?).

I have researched this and you have to be careful with gravel.

I have the wrong kind, really, that I'm going to replace. I have that stuff that is very angular, rough, sharp edged, and with smallish pieces. (the kind that comes in bright neon colors, though there's nothing wrong with that part of it).

I've read, and have seen personally, how they can jet to the top for a breath and then plunge to the sdubstrate so hard they hit their noses very hard. Both of mine have little scars or calluses on the tips of their noses from hitting the gravel so hard.

Also, I've seen pictures of an ADF that had a small piece of neon pink gravel stuck in his mouth that required assistance to remove, which is very dangerous and traumatic for the frog and for you.

You want to make sure the gravel, if you use it, is big enough that they can't get it stuck in their mouths.

I'm going to get pool sand, the kind used in pool filters. It's heavier and doesn't cloud up when you vacuum and falls back and settles down cleanly.

5) Fish = Frog?: Many articles and sites about aquarium health only mention fish. Is it safe to assume what is good for a fish is good for my ADF buddies as well?

I have two Ottocinlus and 1 Brochis Splendes, a mystery snail and some ghost shrimp. They all get along very well. The ADFs sometimes think the snail is a rock to hide under so they try, frantically wiggling their fat little bodies up underneath her, which she's not crazy about because she shuts her operculum and waits for the little pest to leave.
.
6) Water: How often should the water be changed in this tank? Are partial changes okay? What do I do with the frogs while I change the water? What is safest and best for their well being during this process? How do I make sure the water is okay to go into the tank and how do I get the buddies back inside afterwards without disturbing them too much?

Siphoning is the way to go. They swim away from the vacuum tube, but are not traumatized at all.

7) Equipment: What else do I need? Right now we have the tank, the two littl
e bottles of tap conditioner/cycle stuff, and frozen bloodworm tabs. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I don't really trust the robots that work at Petland to get me setup correctly.

I agree you need a heater. I have read quite a bit about a particular fungus that is devastating populations of amphibians worldwide, and even aquarium kept ADFs are not immune to this possiblilty.

One thing that is stressed in regards to the Chytrid (shortened form of a very long word) fungus, is that keeping them in water that is at least 78 degrees will likely prevent them from ever developing that.
Frogs in cooler temeratures are the ones that are being attacked in many parts of the world by this fungus.

I keep my water at 78.5 or 79 degrees.

I have already resolved to replace all the plants with silk counterparts, and to add a few more hiding places for the buddies.

Live plants are good. They do help with your parameters. Silk is OK, but definitely some kind of plant, silk or real in there. They like to prop themselves up in soft plants, suspended mid tank or near the surface sometimes.

I have a very small terra cotta saucer in the tank to place snail jello and other food, and the frogs try to wiggle up underneath that, too.

I have a fake hollow tree stump they love to get inside, so think of what they might be able to wiggle under or hide in to make them happy.

On feeding them: the frozen blood worms are good, and they also like veggie pellets from kensfish.com (he makes extra special good stuff). They also munch on the algae wafers the Brochis and Ottos eat. They can smell food in the tank and make their way around to it. Fortunately they don't have much competition from the fish I have, in fact I worry that they will eat it all before my snail finds it.

Their skin will molt so don't panic when you see this filmy stuff hanging off of them. The other day I nearly panicked becacuse one of them had a mouthful of skin that was from his leg and still attached to his leg. It's as if he had a long stocking that he pulled partially off and had the foot of it in his mouth and a lot of it still on his leg.

He was trying to swim and the skin was inhibiting his efforts to swim. He had such a huge mouthful he couldn't spit it out, and it wouldn't come off his leg. I was just thinking I needed to help him when he finally got free and swam to the top for air.

Feeding. They are blind as bats so it takes them a while to find the food. I frequently use very long forceps (aquatic plant tools) that I ordered from Drsfostersmith.com to feed them bloodworms.

It is hysterical to see them follow the silver tip of that thing, then lunge at it, butting their heads on the blunt tip, and then finally finding the dangling worms and grabbing it with their mouths, strugging frantically, gripping the forceps with their feet and hands trying to rip the worms away from the grip of the forceps.

I do also use a turkey baster , when I don't feel like doing the forceps method(aquarium use only, no soap ever) and suck up some worms and then gently place them in the saucer. They know where to find them. Their vision is terrible but their sense of smell and routine will help them know just where to go.

I ususally take a frozen block out of the freezer, cut it in half, then put half back in the freezer, thaw the partial block in a glass cup with tank water. You have to be careful not to overfeed them; they would eat a whole block in one meal if you let them.


They love to climb or jump.

I was doing a water change and had half the water out of the tank, (this was back in July and I had only had them about a month). I was in the kitchen and I heard my sister yelling: FROG! FROG!!!

I ran back and she had just put one of the ADFs back into the tank. It was on the floor halfway down the hallway. It had dust bunnies on it, lol, and she had dusted him off and put him back in. It's a good thing she saw it before one of our cats did.


I think he jumped out and landed behind the tankstand on some accumulated dust back there (embarassed to admit that but I think it saved him from a fatal fall, lol. I have ceramic tile floors, ouch!)


We waited for several days, holding our breaths, thinking he would surely have sustained some injuries, but no. He is happy and healthy. Indredible. The fall was probably the equivalent of one of us falling off of a five strory building.

I just love my ADFs and they are the funniest things!! Sometimes you may look over and see one of them standing on one leg, like a ballerina, just poised there, then slowly just fall over on his back and sit there for a moment.

Sometimes they seem to float as if dead, arms and legs outstretched. This has been refered to as the "Zen" position, lol.

They are good natured. My Brochis, who should be in a tank with four more of his kind, thinks he's one of them. I find them all snuggled up together, sometimes, behind the tree stump.

Sorry, seems I've just gone on and on, but I wanted to share those things with you. You and your daughter will just love them, and get hours of enjoyment. She will especially enjoy seeming them wrestling with the forceps for those frozen blood worms. I usually hold onto the worms a bit, just so they have to work for it.

It's amazing how fast they wiggle in their attempts to get those worms away from that big silver thing. You and your daughter will giggle when you see it.

 

[serissime]

Others have already given tons of great info. I'd like to add some equipment suggestions.

If you keep them in a tank at about 5g or below, the Red Sea Art Deco filter is a great little filter. It keeps my 2.5 gallon tanks clean, it's silent, and creates very little current. It also has adjustable flow but it doesn't really need it. If you don't have a cover on the tank, like with any HOB (hang on back) filter, there will be significant evaporation. (I quickly realized this and got a lid) Besides a sponge filter (don't know any that small anyways), there aren't very good small filters available. I hate the whisper mini filter. It's a piece of noisy crap and super annoying. (Replaced it)

This is a great little inexpensive heater for 5g and below. I have it in both my 5g and 2.5g tanks. In my 5g, the temperature sometimes drops to 75F at night but that's because it works to keep a certain degree above the room's temperature. So if it gets above 75F in the room, you may need to unplug it. Usually it stays around 78 though, in my experience. In the 2.5g the temperature hardly swings.

This is up to 3g but it's probably fine up to 5 or 6g. It's a little bit more expensive (well, this site has really great deals so it's VERY affordable there). Marineland is a very reliable brand, better reputation than Hydor. I wish I had bought these instead of the Hydors but the hydors DO work.

Other than those, I don't know any trustworthy heaters. If you go bigger, I do not suggest Hydor submersible heaters. I have several and they are NOT reliable. I REALLY need to replace them. They do weird stuff and I'm really scared they're going to fry my fish one day. Heaters are one thing you do not want to mess around with.

I really like sand in my tanks. I will never go back to gravel. Live plants really aren't complicated if you pick easy ones. If you have a light fixture, hopefully fluorescent or compact fluorescent, you could get some low maintenance plants like anubias nana, java fern, and java moss. None of these should be planted into the substrate because of their rhizomes. I have my anubias rooted into a piece of driftwood (you tie it with string or something till it roots into it) and my java fern is weighted down with a little plant weight from the LFS (little metal sticks that bend) and I try not to move them. I tied my java moss to my driftwood with string and it looks very nice. I also put some on the top of my little stone lantern and it's starting to look good. The java moss will probably always need to be tied, sigh. I dose my tanks with the fertilizer Excel by Seachem although I don't know if these plants really need it. I'm sure there are some other low maintenence plants available that will look nice as background plants, but I've been too lazy and have a mix of real and plastic. Your photo period should be around 8 hours I'm pretty sure.

Hopefully this all makes sense. Sorry it's such a novel! I hope everything goes well and you really get into this, maybe expanding? :thm: Fishkeeping is really fun and rewarding, especially if your daughter gets into it too as she gets older. I'm told that babies and toddlers really enjoy watching fishtanks. Make sure you keep asking questions as you have them!

 

[Slipfox]

Wow, thank you all so much for the amazing responses. I don't think I could find better advice anywhere even if I was paying for it!

here is a great guide on tank cycling
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...ad.php?t=84598

Excellent post, although I was boggled until the third or fourth time I read it.

...got the idea of using the turkey baster...

...caves made out of the little terra cotta flower pots...

I picked up two terra cotta pots and a tiny terra cotta saucer today, and intend to do much the same. Also grabbed a baster. Makes getting the worms to the plate much eaiser.

Does the tank have lights?

No lights on the tank directly, but there is a fair bit of ambient light for the buddies. I have ordered a heater today because my house does get fairly chilly.

The majority of aquarists on AC use PRIME as water conditioner...

...Definitely agree you need a filter...
...I think 10 gallon will be great...
...I'm going to get pool sand, the kind used in pool filters...
...Siphoning is the way to go.

I picked up a bottle of PRIME today. I also found this [URL="http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalog/ctl3684/cp18302/si1380542/cl1/seachem_onyx_sand_7_kg?&query=sand&queryType=0&offset=%5B/URL"]] Sand , and intend to replace the gravel in the bottom with it. Grabbed a Siphon Hose but found that it was too large for my tank -- there is more to this aquarium stuff than I thought!

...the Red Sea Art Deco filter is a great little filter...
...This is a great little inexpensive heater for 5g and below...
...anubias nana, java fern, and java moss...

I ordered that filter, that heater, and intend to go and pick up those plants at the local aquarium megaultra store this weekend. Great advice, the products all looked very solid, especially compared to some of the flimsy things I saw at Petland.
Ultimately I plan on upgrading to a larger tank in the next six months, I figure if I can keep these little buddies rockin and rollin in the smaller tank I can manage a bigger one later on.

So, my next questions!
1) Which test kit? Every store seems to have a wide array, do I need a PH kit? Should I just grab something like this? Or is all that unnesessary?
2) What is the film that develops on the surface of the water? Is it good or bad? What causes it? Can this hurt my froggies?

Thanks again everyone, I have really felt welcome, and this whole frogging experience has become enjoyable as opposed to overwhelming. The last thing I wanted was to harm these little dudes. A week ago I would never have thought I would be doing a partial water change or anything of the sort! I will keep up on this thread and post anymore questions as they arise.

Yours,
Ryan.

 

[mel_20_20]

The API Master is the one I hear most about here on AC. There are other liquid test kits, but you want to be sure they test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and ph.

The film on the water... I'm not sure what that could be.

You do need to be very careful to not allow any pollutants, or chemicals to get into their water. ADFs are sensitive to those things.

For instance, you want to be sure to wash any hand lotion, creams, cosmetics, perfumes, any possible chemicals, and also any soap residue off your hands and arms if they are going to be in the tankwater.

I wash my hands and arms with soap, but then I scrub vigorously and rinse, rinse, rinse, while rubbing my skin, to make sure the soap residue is positively washed away.

You need to avoid spraying any areosol products, air fresheners, windex, furniture polish, pesticides, etc., anywhere in the vicinity of the tank, even a distance away.
I cover my tank with a bath towel if I'm cleaning in the rooms nearby, or certainly if in the same room, to avoid any drifting of any chemicals or substances that could get into their water.

All utensils, containers, buckets, brushes, nets, siphons, etc. should never have soap used on them or in them. Rinse all those things with clean tap water and no soap ever.

What does the film look like?

 

[mel_20_20]

I couldn't get the URL to work for the sand you are looking at. I know, from others here on AC, that pool filter sand is heavier than most sand and sinks cleanly, doesn't cloud up the water and it settles back down quickly when vacuumed or stirred up.

A friend of mine got "Play sand" from Home Depot or Lowes, and it works great, too, and is cheap. It is heavier and settles nicely, too.