new here

[beabroca]

hi my names bea and i hate to burden hopfull new friends with my problem but i feel i have no place else to go!



the last two weeks have been nuts! which has lead me to here for advice from people with experience insd of someone who reads the back of a bottle and says "well this says it should work"

i decided to buy a tank for my son whose 3....obviously i would take care of it but i thought he would enjoy it. went to a "unnamed" pet store and debated on whether to get the small tank or the larger 20 gal...i really have a love for fish and am constantly going places and looking at who has better fish and i just overall love them and wanted them to be a part of my life!

and as i said i love fish, love them but that doesnt mean i am an expert on them, would like to be but im not. so i was listening to everyword that petstar lady said....listened asked questions and made sure i did everything right. [by what she said] i spent 500 dollars the day i got the tank, i bought a night oak stand with cubards underneath and plants and a large peice of wood and a little hiding places. i got everything they told me to buy, and even bought the better brand of each.

they tell me go home set your tank up tonight and come back tomorrow night and you can put your first fish in it. im thinking wow this is easy.

get home and put in bio-boost water conditioner a vitiman and mineral pyramid freshwater salt...the nice filter with the bio-things in it and it was suppost o be good, they told me i could have the 10-20 or the 20-50 size tank filter, i chose the 20-50 thinking it would be better.

get everything ready perfectly how they told me to do it.

next day go pick out 4 beutiful goldfish...medium size...the lady who sold me the tank and told me how to set it up was the same lady who sold me the fish.


im thinking man why didnt i do this years ago?!!

so big mistake happens and im a horrable person for this, i completely take the blame. i was telling my son that it was mommys special job to feed the fish and when he got bigger he could feed them too.

not thinking about our little joke, when he stands on the chair to hug his very tall father, we say wow christopher you got bigger!

so next morning we wake up, and the rest of th bio-boost is poured in, 2 large containers of food poured in and also a haft container of infants simalac.


CHRISTOPHER NEVER DOES THIS SORT OF THING. he is a abnormally well behaved child, we never have to disapline him or anything, he sleeps all night, then wakes us up and if ew dont want to get up he lays there with us and sings to us until we do wake up....we are very blessed with him, so imagine our faces walking downstairs, expecting only to find him using the morning pot. looking for the fish in a black tank!

we immediatly nettted the fish out into a temp spot, and chuck ran to the petstore spent 80 on things to get the water out, successfully clean the gravel and the walls and everything they told us to buy.

took us over 10 hours to clean this up and in that time , the goldfish that were in a goldfish bowl at this time, were dying, so running back to the petstore i went....stresscoat you need it! ok back home...stress coat on...the guy sold me a ridiculously small bottle while i like the larger bottles that you only have to buy once for a while ya know?

the fish dyed that night, i was soo hurt , i was learning there personalities already. and they were so pretty. 4 15 dollar fish wasted.


so here i am with the problem now! if anyones still ready i greatly appricate you!

we get everything started again the same exact way we did it the first time, except this time we made sure every crack of everything was clean. we washed the inside of the filter and changed the filter things. added everything exactly the same. 36 hours pass, and going back to that petstore they sell us 3 cheaper fish but of the same species.

get them in the tank and everythings fine....so the the next day we are out shopping and on the way home we seen a new petstore, a petland, ive heard really good things about them so i wanted to stop....

so ok three days ago we bought 2 more fish off them, same type that we had in the tank now, but alittle smaller. one was acting alittle stressted on the way home so i thought it would be best to go straight home and get it in the tank soon. i floated the bag and everything then POURED the fish in the water.


that fish got worse and worse and worse and worse....iy never moved or anything, i was very sad and stayed up all night watching this fish hoping there was something that would perk him back up.

8am day 2
calling the petstore.....somethings wrong with my fish i bought yesterday.

explain the problem please

well hes floating on top of the water and not moving but hes still breathing

whats the waters temp

71

ok thats fine, hes just stressed he will get better give him through the day and bring it back if he dont get better and well test your water for you...

thank you!

end of call

so im thinking ok, hes just alitle stressed, throughout the day he didnt move and an hour before the petstore closed i went there with the fish and said this is not normal! i was like what do i need to do to help it!

she tested the water levels....wowo everythings good except the ph is at 8.6. that could be the problem.

ok get a solution. we bought PH 7.0 instantly drops it down to where it is suppost to be. and we put another dose of stress coat on the fish.

day three....today

wake up and gizmo the stressed fish is seeminly dead and stuck to the filter. i net him and he swims alittle , hes not dead but no strength to get away from the filter?? ok so i pull him out and put him in the fishtank bowl. the water was sooo cloudy i couldnt see anything thru it. i didnt know what to do now!

back to the petstore with gizmo.

yeah your ph is fine but your ammonia is off the charts you need this and this and this! ammo lock ...the cycle....and some more water softner to help change over the tap. then she said i recommend you buy my water , jaw hits ground, she was getting all cocky and saying ill test my water right in front of you and i guarentee notihng is wrong with my water. okay. we buy water from the fishstore. sadly. so we take it home and do everything they tell us to....change 25% water and put the ammo lock in and cycle in and im doing everything they said to do!!!!

they took gizmo and didnot refund us like they were supposo becuase it was our fault ...she said i shoudnt pour the water out of the bag with the fish...ok i have never ever ever heard that.....am i being screwed into buying all this stuff, ive spent over 750 as of today not including fish on getting this right....


20galtank extall
4 golfish....small
has heater in it
and 3 system filteration system
all chemicals added faithfully and corecctly
whats going on!!!!!!!

 

[msjinkzd]

Oh boy, i really feel for you. What is happening is that your biological bacteria is not established so your tank is cycling. Here is some info: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598
I would recommend getting a liquid test kit, and doing lots and lots of water changes. Your tank is also overstocked by their advice. I would recommend either posting in freshwater newbie, or general coldwater for help. I am so sorry your experience has started like this, but we will be here to support you until its worked out!

 

[botia]

I am really sorry for all your troubles seems like the store is a little negligent selling you so many goldfish in that size tank sounds like there is alot of different problems going on if you do not have any fish left in tank i would suggest to empty tank and do a really good rinsing of tank with water also rinse all your gravel etc several times and start over again but this time look up some good starter fish your son may enjoy maybe some daniosto help start cycle. But the best bet is to do some research on the type of fish your family would enjoy. Unfortunately alot of the chain stores do not have really experienced staff to help customers. Fishkeeping is a great hobby and should be enjoyed it should not be the nightmare you were just put through. Just look around the posts on here there is alot of good info welcome to A.C. I hope this bad experience wont sour you from fishkeeping and good luck

 

[beabroca]

i dont think it would ever sour my fishkeeping dreams and goals, i am just confused with what is right and what is wrong. i put the ammo lock in a few hours ago and am suppost to comtinue that every other day for 7 days and then test teh ammonia. the other four goldfish seem to be doing good.....except now im looking up how to tell if ones about to burst a bunch of eggs everywhere!! my oranda is getting bigger by the day and i am def NOT overfeeding them.no food ever touchs the bottom and it is gone in a minute or less. but her guy is getting huge and looks like its seroiusly going to burst.... ahhhh so much at once

 

[beabroca]

oh yeah and i forgot to say that i added some cycle to the water, the fish lady said it would ad bacteria for the other bacteria to eat and then it would be better

 

[AshK]

I'm sorry for your troubles. I would like to preface my post by saying I am not a sugar-coater and may come off as harsh and inconsiderate. There are some important things that need to be said, however, and I really do not mean to discourage you from the hobby in any way.

First off, discontinue trusting the advice of the various pet stores you have visited. They are first and foremost salespeople, and will say anything to get you to buy their products. Granted, some employees do know a thing or two about fish. The majority, unfortunately, are completely uneducated and will give you useless and even harmful advice. The best thing you can do is go to a trusted source of information (like AC forum!) and read and ask as many questions as you can.

Read the link that Msjinkzd posted. It explains the cycling process, the importance of water changes and diligent aquarium maintenance. Those "instacycle" products you have bought are complete frauds, and you would be best off trying to return them and using the money to purchase a liquid test kit. If you search the site here you will find countless pages of evidence to back me up. They do not work.

You ought to consider returning the fish you have and getting a refund. They are not suitable for a 20 gallon tank.

 

[NeonFlux]

Welcome to AC.

Looks like you are heading into the common new tank syndrome...


What you have to do now, is to cycle your tank.. by not adding chemicals or whatever into your tank's water during the cycle is in progress. Chemicals like pH down, pH up, Proper 7.0, 8.0 etc, all of those are bad for your water and your fish, they just want to make money off of ya. Chemicals are baaad, stray away from them...like AshK said, discontinue trusting the advice of the various pet stores you have visited. I agree.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the goldfish can't live long in the 20 gallon even though you have the cycle established..what you may need is a large 60 gallon to house the goldfish.. because goldfish can get quite large, hitting to 4-6 inches or larger. If you don't want a 60 gallon since it's too big on the buck, keep the new 20 gallon and go for small community fish, like schools of 6 guppies, 6 neon tetras, and 4 corydoras, all these fish stay small 2-3 inches and are very peaceful, they can live together in a established 20 gallon for years to come.

For now, what you want to do is get your tank cycled. Do a large 50% water change, like right now. Start doing lots of water changes everyday from this point. I highly recommend buying a aquarium freshwater test kit to test for pH, pH hardness, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I prefer freshwater master test kit brand by API, it's good. Your ammonia should be pretty sky-high right now like what the person said, you are pretty much overstocked that's why its so high... and nitrite and nitrate should be 0. Test dip-strips are NOT all that accurate, by the way! You may encounter false readings if you do decide to get it...Soo what you want to do is keep up with water changes, keeping ammonia about 4-5 ppm and not any higher. If ammonia is above 5ppm, water change back to 4-5ppm. Read this to get the general idea of the cycling process, that should explain it all down. In a unfortunate situation, like if all of your goldfish died out, then I would use 100% pure clear ammonia from your local groceries, walmart, to cycle your tank. If you indeed want to use ammonia to cycle your tank, read "Fishless cycling", should be in the link I provided you.


So once your cycle has completed, you can start by adding new fish VERY SLOWLY, not too fast or you will get a mini-cycle. Many fish can adapt to new water by letting them slowly adjust. To get them to adjust to your tank's parameters, pour the new fishes into a cup, then you want to pour small amounts of your tank's water to the cup slowly..in order so that the fish can acclimate to the new pH, temperature, salt, and whatever is in your water. Takes about 1 hour or 2, so keep pouring small amounts.. When you are done, go to the sink with your fish cup, grab a fish net, and dump the fish through the net, and dump the fish into the tank WITHOUT the fish store's water. If you pour the fish right in without acclimation, the result may be a shock to the fish's system and plus you might introduce parasites with that fish water. A shocked fish is one that will start gasping at the surface, dying... And don't be surprised when the fish you bought from the fish shop dies randomly.. Petco, petsmart, LFS's(Local Fish Stores) sometimes usually carry stressed out fish from shipment or the store owners and employees may have handled the fish improperly, so the fish can die for no apparent reason. It depends from owner to owner's knowledge and care. If they know how to do this, and then do that, like quarantining, acclimaton, diagnose, and etc...if they know a lot about fish and they know what to do, then it may be safe to say the stocks are usually healthy..you should go find yourself a good local fish store.

Some advice, fishy maintenance. Sure-fire way to have healthy fish... 50% water changes every week or every two weeks. Gravel vaccum once every month, using python! No more heavy bucket madness! This works by using your water's force from your faucet to start siphon and the old water gets drained out, once done, you can siphon new water back to your tank. And the filter's media needs a rinsing after a month or two, be sure to rinse the the filter media in a bucket of your tank water. Don't worry about the bacteria (your cycle) it will not go away so easily, the bacteria will soon establish itself yet again. The media, which is the polyester quilt bag, not only it holds your biological filtration(bacteria) it also holds your carbon, you can buy some without carbon, actually you should get some without carbon. There is no need for carbon, carbon absorbs ammonia and that'll mess up your cycling process. Also it's not really all that necessary when your cycle is completed.


By maintaining everything, you will have a very healthy aquarium. It's not hard keeping freshwater fish. All those chemicals are not necessary to keep your fish at optimal health. All you really need to do is keep up with water changes weekly and maintenance, that is enough to keep your fish very healthy.


Well, I hope this helps. I have gone through ups and downs with this as well, don't feed bad.. When I was a little kid, my dad used to buy me a super small plastic tank full of feeder goldfish and they all died because of serious ammonia poisoning. So I used to lose a lot of fish back in the days, we used to kept lionhead goldfish and then they die...of course due to our lack of healthy aquatic fish keeping knowledge.


Good luck, sorry to hear about the deaths.

-William

 

[Kashta]

Hi Beabroca. Welcome to AC.

I saw both your posts in the cold water area so I wanted to come here first and read your first post. I'll comment too, more specifically, in your later posts.

The main thing I want to convey now is just relax. We'll all help you through this. And keep in mind that you have done absolutely nothing wrong. None of what has happened is your fault. You've been given really bad information from several salespeople who give out advice designed to sell some mass marketed, quick-solution product... as they've been told to do. They mean no harm. They just don't actually maintain these tanks or raise these fish themselves in their own homes, so they don't have any real knowledge about this to draw from. They know how to run tests and which product they're supposed to recommend for each paramater that falls out of the target range. You describe a symptom, that equates to a disease so they sell you medications. Your water is too high or low on something, they sell you chemicals to artificially change it based on what marketing people recommend to sell that product line (even though this doesn't work that way). You describe a condition such as cloudy water... sure enough, they have bottles of something that's supposed to magically make it look sparkling clean. You come in telling of dead or dying fish, they're right there to sell you even more of them. They have a lot of fish on hand to sell, so they encourage you to buy as many as you can. Then if those die too, okay then just buy some more. That's what they do - they sell supplies, chemicals, medications, and as many fish as customers will buy, over and over again. A beginner at this doesn't stand a chance. And believe me... we've all been through this ourselves. You are definitely not alone in this.

On the positive side, you've not let this rocky beginning dampen your enthusiasm or your interest in continuing on. They've wasted a good amount of your money on doomed fish that couldn't survive what they've had you put them through. Okay... so you'll take back whatever supplies you bought that isn't of any actual use to you. What's important is you've invested in a beautiful tank setup and you've bought really good equipment... that's a high quality filter, you probably also have a decent air pump, heater, and so on. That part of this is a great start for you. Now, you'll learn now all about cycling a tank from the beginning.. doing your own water tests and understanding how the readings you get will tell you where you are along the process. Then you'll be ready to choose whichever fish you want that are well suited for the tank you have.. again, at a slow rate. In the end, you do end up with exactly what you wanted from the beginning.

 

[Rbishop]

Welcome to AC! Sorry to hear of your troubles, but it happens frequently when folks get mislead by store employees that do not know what hey should be recommending. They often are just trying to make a sale.

The folks in our coldwater section will get you on the right path.

 

[H4rb]

aah..the infamous LFS...don't we just love them.