New marine setup without skimmer?

[matticus]

Hello! This is my first post, but I've been reading up for several days around here to make sure I understand the basics. There's so much information that it's hard to know whether you've got the combination right!

I've kept freshwater aquariums for several years, and I am now setting up my first marine aquarium (the freshwater ones are out of commission now). I'm planning to go with a 55 gallon FOWLR setup, and I have a few questions.

First, my setup, apart from the 55G aquarium with lighting is an Eheim Ecco 2234 filter. I also have an Aquaclear 70 (I think) which I may or may not use. Now, I'll be going 50/50 with live rock to do the biological filtration and of course a powerhead for added flow beyond the Ecco. My big question for filtration is whether I can get away with no skimmer. I plan on adding a refugium later on and maybe doing the skimmer thing then, but I don't have the budget right now for it. Will this work, since I'll probably only have 3-4 fish for the first year or so? Is it okay to use a skimmer rated for a smaller aquarium if you're only using it as a supplement (I ask because I can get a free skimmer from a friend, but it's only good for ~30gallons)?

Another thing I'm wondering is how to handle inverts, especially when moving. I'm not planning on adding any now, but I might want to in the future. I know I will be moving within 3 years. How do you go about removing them from the aquarium once they've attached to rocks?

I know the 2234 is less filtration than a lot of you use, but is there any reason why I would *need* any more than this canister+live rock, given my low bioload? I'm trying to keep costs (and power consumption) low.

My last question is whether a mix of aragonite and crushed coral looks okay together. Can it be mixed, or should it be layered? How thick of a layer should there be? I know there's the sticky about crushed coral, but I'd like a more coarse texture on my bottom.

Thanks for your help and sorry for the long post!

 

[Reefscape]

Hi there..ok, a few observations from you introduction...

My big question for filtration is whether I can get away with no skimmer. I plan on adding a refugium later on and maybe doing the skimmer thing then, but I don't have the budget right now for it. Will this work, since I'll probably only have 3-4 fish for the first year or so?

- Yes, you can get away without having a skimmer on the tank..It is going to be a very very low bioload on the aquarium..

Another thing I'm wondering is how to handle inverts, especially when moving. I'm not planning on adding any now, but I might want to in the future. I know I will be moving within 3 years. How do you go about removing them from the aquarium once they've attached to rocks?

Moveing inverts is quite easy. Just get some water into a good sized plastic bag and remove the invert with a net, put the invert into the bag with water in and then tie a knot in it...Depending on the outside temperature, you may need to concider heat packs to keep the temperature stable in the bag..if its an invert that you dont want to disturb from a rock, then simply put the rock, complete into a good sized bucket of tank water...again, may think about heat packs.....

I know the 2234 is less filtration than a lot of you use, but is there any reason why I would *need* any more than this canister+live rock, given my low bioload? I'm trying to keep costs (and power consumption) low.

This factor is also dependant on how much live rock you have in the system as to how much, if any, additional filter equipment is used. If it was me, i would just use 1 - 1.5lbs of live rock, remove filter media from the filters and use them just for circulation...or maybe to hold carbon or phosphate reduction media...

My last question is whether a mix of aragonite and crushed coral looks okay together. Can it be mixed, or should it be layered? How thick of a layer should there be? I know there's the sticky about crushed coral, but I'd like a more coarse texture on my bottom.

I may be a biased here as i really dont like crushed coral substrate at all..It traps detrius and food particles which will cause rises in nitrates and phosphates...My suggestion would be to just use aragonite sugar grade sand...

I think i have covered your questions above, if not, just shout up some more...

Niko

 

[noskimmer]

Good on you for going marine!

Niko has answered very well, especially with the crushed coral, stay away.

Going from fresh water to marine, circulation is a big factor, it is amazing how much you can have, you think it might be too much, but in the end it never really is. Just go diving at the edge of an atoll lagoon where the surf is breaking on the reef, if you manage to see through the micro bubbles, you'll notice that the fish and corals don't care about the immense turbulence, apart from yourself.

 

[matticus]

- Yes, you can get away without having a skimmer on the tank..It is going to be a very very low bioload on the aquarium..

Thanks for all the prompt answers! At what point would I need to add a skimmer? (assuming no messy predatory fish for now).

I'd like to add a smaller lionfish at some point, but according to my research, they aren't compatible with clownfish. That said, a number of people here seem to have both. I've been pretty good with finicky eaters, so once I've established myself with a few fish, this is one I'd like to add if at all possible.

Moveing inverts is quite easy. Just get some water into a good sized plastic bag and remove the invert with a net

Great! I was worried that they were more tightly attached than that and I'd have to take the rock out and damage the inverts if they covered too much.

I may be a biased here as i really dont like crushed coral substrate at all..It traps detrius and food particles which will cause rises in nitrates and phosphates...My suggestion would be to just use aragonite sugar grade sand...

I'm not a fan of the crushed coral either, for those reasons, but I wanted something with more texture. Is there a substrate that is more coarse than aragonite that would be suitable?

Going from fresh water to marine, circulation is a big factor, it is amazing how much you can have, you think it might be too much, but in the end it never really is.

My powerhead is rated for ~600gph, plus the filter which gets 145 (185?) when empty. That should be enough for starters.

Things will get more complex in time as experience and budget allows, but I'm trying to keep to a few devices and a simple setup to begin with to allow me time to learn EVERYTHING about each of the products I use.


Thanks for your help! If there are any other things I should look out for or good tips I might have missed, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Reefscape]

Thanks for all the prompt answers! At what point would I need to add a skimmer? (assuming no messy predatory fish for now).

when you further than your stocking list you mentioned or start adding corals. Of course, there are those who do not have one full stop...Its down to preference or experience of the system you have..

I'm not a fan of the crushed coral either, for those reasons, but I wanted something with more texture. Is there a substrate that is more coarse than aragonite that would be suitable?

review this link for a selection of substrates...

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_substrates_calcium_reactor_media_caribsea.asp?CartId=

My powerhead is rated for ~600gph, plus the filter which gets 145 (185?) when empty. That should be enough for starters.

Things will get more complex in time as experience and budget allows, but I'm trying to keep to a few devices and a simple setup to begin with to allow me time to learn EVERYTHING about each of the products I use.

Yes, that is more than adequate for starters...obviously, this would need reviewing if/when corals are thought about...

Thanks for your help! If there are any other things I should look out for or good tips I might have missed, I'd love to hear them.

The best tips i can give you is keep reviewing the neewbie area here, read lots and have bags of patience mate...

Any other questions you may have, just holla up mate..

Niko

 

[matticus]

Any other questions you may have, just holla up mate..

Thanks for the substrate link! I think I've settled on Tahitian Moon Sand, although am I right in assuming that this has no buffering capability? I think I'll pick up a bag of the #1 aragonite to add in if that's the case.

The other question I have is about sumps/fuges. I will build my own overflow when I'm ready to add one. But what is wrong with using a water pump to draw water out of the tank and into the sump, and then using the canister filter to do the mechanical/chemical bit and return it to the tank?

The only problem I can think of is that if one pump fails, it will drain or flood the sump, but with the right check valve and plumbing setup, this could easily be avoided. The overflow also allows better gas exchange, but if you already have enough aeration, this also doesn't seem like a concern.

 

[Germanman]

i have to really agree on not mixing crushed coral and aragonite. i did it once and it was a nightmare.

 

[matticus]

i have to really agree on not mixing crushed coral and aragonite. i did it once and it was a nightmare.

I'm not using crushed coral--I found a suitable grade of sand for the right texture which saved me the trouble!

I'll be using some white aragonite and Tahitian Moon Sand for the substrate--not mixed together salt-and-pepper style, but more like a two-tone style. I'll post pictures when I receive the moon sand (aragonite from LFS is standing by).

Sadly, my Eheim filter is backordered and there is no estimated ship date at this time. I'll be cycling the tank without a filter (just an empty Aquaclear 70 HOB filter for circulation + Hydor Koralia), so hopefully the Eheim will arrive by the time I'm ready to stock the aquarium.

My live rock is arriving Monday--I'll rinse it with saltwater and cure it in the main tank while using it to cycle.

Exciting (and expensive) times!

 

[Germanman]

sounds great! cant wait to see it up and running!