New SW setup - ?'s on water, filtration

C

Carissa

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Oct 23, 2007
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I'm planning to begin my first SW setup, FOWLR within the next month or two. I think I have the basics sorted out but would like a few expert opinions if I may. :)

It's a 33g tank.

Filtration: I'm planning to go with a deep sand bed, 30lbs of plain reef rock seeded with some live rock (if I can get any), and a protein skimmer. Possibly a powerhead if the skimmer doesn't provide enough circulation. Does this sound sufficient for biological/mechanical filtration?

Water: My tap water seems to be ALMOST perfect - it has practically nothing in it (to my chagrin, when it comes to maintaining my other planted freshwater tanks, which I'm constantly fertilizing and reconstituting). However, it does have 0.33 ppm of Copper according to the municipal report. I have a carbon filter on the whole house, which presumably removes a little of the copper, but is this amount something I need to worry about for a FO tank? Would running a copper removing resin in the tank after water changes and at startup be sufficient to remove this amount of copper? What about if I were to get a Brita pitcher to run it through with copper removing resin and/or carbon? I don't feel like spending lots of $$ on an RO system just yet if this is a minor issue, with a small tank like this. Maybe later I would if I upgrade to corals.
 
Dont use tap water, especially if it has traces of copper in it. If you decided you want to keep shrimps or any other inverts you won't be able to. Do you know what the phosphate and nitrate levels of you tap water are? If you dont want to buy an RO unit (I dont have one), purchase your RO from you lfs, you will be glad you did further down the line
 
Phosphate and nitrate are both too low to detect (as per municipal water supply and my own testing). KH, GH, iron, and pretty much everything else that is tested for is extremely low to nonexistent according to the report. The copper is the only issue. Aren't marine fish often treated with copper for diseases? I would be a little worried about buying RO around here... I don't trust that it's necessarily properly maintained. But, that is one option. What about using a copper removing resin?
 
I've never use copper removing resin but you could give it a try before putting it in your tank to see if it works.
As for treating fish with copper, yes. This is done but only for a very short period of time and usually out of the display tank as the copper will leach into silicone and your live rock killing any thing that is living in it. Personally I dont think its worth the risk
 
I highly recommend you use reverse osmosis water. Undetectable levels of phosphates/nitrates with standard kits are still good enough to cause algae problems. Why not use water that verifiably has none? If you are unsure about the quality of the water, buy a TDS meter. They can be had for under $30 US. Ideally, you want it as close to zero as possible.

As far as a copper removing resin, that is eventually going to get expensive. Your best (and cheapest in the long run) is to purchase a good RO/DI unit. The level of copper you have now is very excessive and well above treatment concentrations. That level will kill any and all invertebrate (and bacterial) life on your live rock. More sensitive fish will also suffer.
 
Well, it's not standard kits, it's the governmental water testing report. They are measuring everything on that report to the thousandth of a ppm. I'm pretty sure that very trace amounts of nitrate and phosphate that are in the tap water, if any, are going to be greatly overshadowed by the actual nitrate and phosphate that will be generated by my fish anyway which will need to be dealt with.

Back to the copper - I read that when copper ions combine with carbonates such as would be kicking around plentifully in a SW tank with rock, it will form copper carbonate and come out of solution anyway. Obviously not a perfect solution if I were to keep any inverts...but perhaps I could wait and test for copper to see what levels really are before adding stock? How sensitive are copper tests?

If I had a TDS meter - that still wouldn't tell me much about copper levels in the RO, unless the TDS was actually 0. Say it's 1 or 2 ppm, I still don't know what those ppm's are. But, even then it could be a safer bet than tap water so I see your point.

I don't quite understand why bacteria would be killed by copper? Perhaps there's something I don't understand. I have freshwater tanks that I use tap water in, besides fertilizing with copper too, and have no troubles cycling them or keeping fish in them.

At any rate, I'll probably end up buying RO.
 
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Differnt types of bacteria colonise freshwater tanks compared to saltwater, those in freshwater would probably tolerate copper to extent, those that live in sw wont
 
Not all bacteria are sensitive to copper. It does, however, kill some species, reducing biodiversity. It is true that the presence of carbonates will react with copper ions--however, that will reach an exhaustion point, especially when a biofilm forms around the carbonate. That will allow it into solution.

That is the point of a TDS meter--ideally, you want it at zero. I never let my water rise above zero at any point in time.

The point of the nitrate and phosphate suggestion is because of the fact that you are already going to have them from your animals. At some point, you will likely need to export it. Adding more with every ounce of water you add or change is counter productive. Anyone who has had a chronic algae problem will agree with me.
 
Well, I guess I'll have to buy RO and see how it goes. I can't have something in the tank that will interfere with the biological filtration even if the fish handle it ok.

As far as nitrates and phosphates go, if that were the only thing standing in my way, I wouldn't be worried about possibly adding an extra .0001 ppm with every water change or top off, I don't think that amount will make or break an algae problem. But with the copper thing, I guess the tap water is totally out.

I might still experiment with the cuprisorb for my fw tanks and see how good of a job it actually does in removing the copper, if I can get a test kit that will be accurate enough.
 
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