New Tank & Ammonia Problems

Dan06

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Jan 22, 2006
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Hi everybody, as you can see my name is Dan :D

Anyways, I have a 3 week old 29 gallon tank with the Whisper 30 Filtration system. Water temp is 79 degrees and PH is 7.0. Nitrite and Nitrates are all 0. Ammonia is 0.

Upon initial setup, I gave the water 48 hours before adding fish. I used a chloramine remover. I added 2 Bala Sharks and I forget the name of the other fish, but they were about a Half Dollar size and they were translucent. My local shop told me all 4 fish were very hardy and would most likely survive the initial cycle.


About a week into having my fish, the original bio bag became caked in dust (I had a rather huge dust issue initially, but that is all settled now).
I checked the Ammonia/ph/nitrites/nitrates daily and everything read 0. Being new to this, I took out the bio bag and washed it with spring water. I put it back into the filter and a whitish powder was emitted into the tank and clouded the water just a very small amount. The same night the bio bag was clogging again (with nothing I could actually see) and making a ton of noise as the water dripped back through the wonder tube. The current at the top of the water never seemed to slow down. The local shop told me it would be okay to add 2 new fish, I picked these yellow Gourami (I think that's what they are..)

I made the huge mistake of changing the bio bag for a new one. This solved all the dripping and noise issues.

About 8 days in (the very next day after changing the bio bag), the ammonia jumped to 1.0ppm. Being new to aquariums, I only got one opinion from the local shop and promptly added 3 teaspoons full of ammolock. The fish were showing small signs of distress. The translucent fish would swim to the top and take a couple gulps every 20-30 mins. The fish became very lazy, just kind of floating around. The shop advised me to NOT do a water change & to just keep treating the water with ammo-lock. This seemed to work, but the water became cloudier & at night time the fish showed signs of distress still. The ammonia would fluctuate between .50 & 1.5 or so. I promptly purchased an Ammonia 'filter' to replace the black sponge filter.

Finally I decided it was time for a water change, I did a 25% water change and the water was nearly clear and the ammonia dropped to .25, the lowest it had been since detected. For a couple days it kept fluctuating back to 1.0ppm and I kept doing 25% water changes. The fish showed minor stress only at night. The fish had become active again! All the while this ammonia problem was occuring, the fish were fed once or twice a week.

48 hours ago, I woke up in the morning and the tank had gotten much cloudier & the Ammonia had spiked to 4.0ppm. The fish were showing signs of distress. I went back to the local shop and they gave me a bottle of 'Cycle'. They told me to take 2 capfulls and pour it into the Whisper 30, infront of the bio bag. They said this would create the bacteria that will break down the ammonia into Nitrites and told me once I detected nitrites to start doing 50% water changes until everything read 0 again and my bio-bag will have been completely cycled and these issues should be gone.

I added the 2 capfulls and the water proceeded to become extremely cloudy. 12 hours later the water was so cloudy I could not see in the tank and one Bala shark has died, both translucent fish died and now my Gourami & 1 Bala Shark are all very aggressive and territorial.

I've done a 50% water change this morning and the water was still very cloudy, but not a pure white mess like it was. I've done another 25% water change about 3 hours later and the water is still cloudy, the ammonia is still reading at 4.0ppm and like I said, all the fish are aggressive and territorial.


I know this post is long, so I will make a sort of cliff notes for it.

Initial startup, water was treated for chloramine, PH was 7.0 and water had 48 hours before adding fish.

Added 2 Bala Sharks & 2 translucent fish, ammonia/nitrite/nitrates all read zero. PH of 7.0

Bio bag became clogged, cleaned with spring water.

Local shop said it was okay to add 2 more fish. Added Gourami, ammonia/nitrite/nitrates all read zero, PH 7.0

That night bio-bag clogged again and I replaced with a new bio-bag.

Next morning Ammonia spiked, treated with ammo-lock, 2 weeks later here I am with higher ammonia after ammo-lock treatments, water changes and 'cycle' being added and after adding cycle the ammonia spiked to 4.0ppm and killed 3 fish.

What should I do?
 
Water changes remove ammonia. As much as it takes.

'Cycle' and most other Bacteria-in-a-bottle type products are generally held in low-regard hereabouts and believed to not really work. BioSpira is the one exception: it works.

Cloudy (white cloudy, not green cloudy) is usually bacteria, not necessarily the good guys, not necessarily bad guys, usually harmless and should clear up on its own when things settle down. Ammonia is colorlesss and that's what's killing everything off.

Balas get big and need room to swim. A 29 is too small for a Bala.

I don't know much about Ammolock. Prime or Amquel will neutralize the ammonia (ie. make it non-toxic) while leaving it in a form that the bacteria can eat. Ammolock may also do this, or may be it doesn't. All of them will mess with your Ammonia tests. This maybe a handy way of saving the fish short-term.

Minimize feedings. Fish food + fish = ammonia. They won't starve to death. You can skip feeding them for a week or two and they'll be fine. A little bit every other day or even every third day is fine for now.

Be skeptical. Don't trust us and (especially) don't trust the folks in the fish store. Use the information as a guide: research, verify.

Water changes. Lots of water changes.

Water changes do not slow down the cycle.
 
Don't listen to your fish store anymore. I am probably in the minority around here in that I prefer fishy cycling, but that was too many fish to start with, and anyone who tells you to NOT do water changes when your ammonia is high and fish are in the tank needs to be reincarnated as a fish in a tank with high ammonia levels.

Just do lots of water changes and don't worry too much about the cloudiness for now. I've never used Cycle or Ammolock, but some additives like that will, in addition to what they are supposed to do, cause small particles in the water to cluster or precipitate, maybe that's what you're seeing?

Do water changes every 12-24 hours.
 
Thanks a lot for your prompt response, I appreciate it.

I am new the this and I solely relied on the local shop (which I am now finding out to be a bad idea)

I have a 55 gallon setup that is currently not in use & I got for very cheap. I figured I would learn to establish the 29 gallon tank & move to the 55 gallon by Fall '06.

How many water changes should I perform daily? Right now the water is getting very cloudy again.

Can I do 50% water changes daily?

Or should I only do it once daily?

I'm going to attach a photo of my tank to show how cloudy it is.

tank.jpg tank2.jpg
 
I would like to make one suggestion about filter choice. Your whisper's biobag keeps clogging up and that leads you to change it removing the bacteria when you most need them. Why not go out and buy a biowheel filter. That way the bacteria live on the wheel and will never be hurt by filter changes. I use a pengiun 200 on my 29 gallon and so far am very happy with it.
 
rrkss said:
I would like to make one suggestion about filter choice. Your whisper's biobag keeps clogging up and that leads you to change it removing the bacteria when you most need them. Why not go out and buy a biowheel filter. That way the bacteria live on the wheel and will never be hurt by filter changes. I use a pengiun 200 on my 29 gallon and so far am very happy with it.

Thanks for your suggestion.

I live about 1/4 mile from garbage facility that lays down unbelievable amounts of dust in my area. I have purchased several air filters for my house and solved the dust issue. I could actually see the dust collecting on the water. That is finally solved now.

How much was the bio wheel setup?
 
You can do 50% water changes, yes.

If I am reading your post right, your ammonia level was still 4.0 ppm after a 50% and then an additional 25% water change, is that right? And there are two fish left in the tank alive?

To be honest, if I had the time and space, what I would probably do is set up the 55 gallon and put the fish in there. But it is not something you want to do unless you really have a place for it to be, it's not like you can just move it easily later.

Barring that, I start with 50% water changes every 12-24 hours, depending on how much and how long the water changes affected the ammonia. If you're not making a dent or if 12 hours later it spikes right back to where it was, increase your frequency or your volume. Does that make sense?
 
Red_K, yes even after the 50% water change today & the 25% water change, the ammonia levels are still sky high & the fish are still alive. I have treated the water with the proper dose of ammo-lock for the ammonia. As of RIGHT NOW the fish aren't acting stressed.

I just performed another ammonia test and it is still roughly about 4.0ppm.

I would set up the 55 gal but I have no place for it as of right now, I am remodeling starting in 2 weeks, until then I have no choice but to use my 29.
 
Dan06 said:
I would set up the 55 gal but I have no place for it as of right now, I am remodeling starting in 2 weeks, until then I have no choice but to use my 29.

Oh, well, it was a thought.

Well, if you can, I would do 50% water changes twice a day until things get under control. And I think rrkss's filter suggestion was good, too.

Good luck. I think almost everyone has gotten bad advice at some point or another, and a lot of people have been where you are right now. Just focus on getting the fish you have left through this and try to learn from it.
 
Thanks a lot for your advice, I feel much better now knowing I have a reliable source for information. :bday:

Tonight I will do another 50% water change.

Since my bio-bag has been through all kinds of nasty ammonia conditions and taken 2 doses of 'cycle' which lead up to the huge ammonia spike... Should I consider putting in a new bio-bag with the next water change?
 
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