New tank - need some help

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pthalobluebetta

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Jul 10, 2006
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wow, thankfully I finally found a good informative site, after browsing through several fish sites and betta sites.

I'm still trying to figure out this cycling thing and with working full time I just want to make sure my poor fish are doing ok.

My tank is a 4g baby biorb aquarium that neglected to include a filter cartridge when it was sent. After much run around from the online place I ordered it from, they finally sent me a cartridge kit that includes packets of stress coat and sterss zyme i think.

Anyway, my betta i had picked up at the local shop had been living temporarily in a approximately 1/3 gal vase for the past 2 weeks. I had been changing about 1/2 to 1/3 of the water out 1-2 times a week or when there was waste at the bottom. Fortunately the guy who runs a really nice shop also sold me Prime to dechlorinate and some Hikari betta food. Anyway, all was going well ( i think ), but I was getting annoyed at the place I bought the tank to ship out a the missing filter cartridge.

So figuring that if the betta can live in a tiny vase, it should be able to live in a larger tank that didn't have a cartridge yet, I added the biorbs special rocks, conditioned the water, added a plant and put my betta into it's larger 4 gal home. About 3-4 days later the filter cartridge finally arrived and I added it to the tank.

In the meantime I had been sold a bunch of other expensive filter components at another store which really just left me with a bunch of charcoal floating around in the water. Still really annoyed over that, but I won't go into that now.

Anyway, I had been planning on adding some tank mates for the betta and w/ some research concluded that white clouds would make a good match (most online sites recommended at least a group of 3). So those I added 2 days ago in addition to another fake/plastic plant.

I was finally able to find a store that stocked some water test kits yesterday when after much research was able to understand tank cycling a little better. I was thinking that I had probably put too many fish in too fast, and hurried home to test the tank.

That's when I noticed that one of the white clouds had disappeared and seemed to be nowhere to be found in the tank. Horrified that it had died from my inepitude, I searched for it fruitlessly through the tank, probably making a mess of the tank. I also did a water test at that time, and I think the reading was something like 3 mg/L of ammonia which according to the charts should be killing my fish =( So I did an immediate 40-50% water change, adding both the stress zyme and stress coat packets (about a 1/4 of each) and 4 drops of Prime to the 2 gal of water i removed.

Next thing I know, the 3rd missing white cloud has popped out of nowhere and is swimming happily around the tank! I gave them a little amount of food and thought maybe everything would be okay. After reading the back of the Prime bottle and seeing where it said in case of emergency I could add up to 5x the dose, I added about 2.5x to the tank hoping it would help out w/ my ammonia levels.

Well, about 2 hours later while i was trying to read through as much of this forum as i could at 2a in the morning, I went to check on the tank and found the poor white cloud quite dead. After I fished it out I noticed that its tail had been shredded. So I'm not sure if it died from ammonia poisoning or from abuse of my betta - I had noticed that occasionally the betta would chase and nip at the tail of the clouds that wandered too close to him.

So this morning before I left for work, I took some more numbers:
Mardel test strip -
nitrate 40
nitrite 0
hardness total 250
buffering 240-300
ph 8-8.4

tetra total ammonia test (2 reagent yel-grn)
0 - .25 mg/L
had a hard time reading the color on this one, the chart seems to go 0, .25, 1, 3, 5 i think? i forget now.
but the color was more yellow than 0, but less green than .25

I also put a air flow control valve on the pump and throttled down by about 1/2. tank is 4 gal.

So I was wondering first of all, should I remove the betta back into the temporary vase? would it be better off in there? And should I leave the remaining 2 white clouds in the tank or move them out as well? And was it too crowded w/ 3 of them? I wasn't sure since online advice was to get at least 3, and at full size of 3/4" a piece I thought it would be okay? The betta doesn't seem to be bothering w/ the other 2 white clouds though who knows what he's doing now that i'm at work.

And is the filter cartridge vital to the bacteria tank cycle process? Since I put in the biorb special rocks w/o a filter, I didn't realize that the bacteria grows mostly in the filter. I wish they had not messed up when the package was boxed! And amazingly I could not find much info about the biorb until after I had purchased and received it. It's funny the negative reviews don't pop up until after you get it. I was only planning on having only my betta in the biorb initially, perhaps I should take the white clouds back to the fish store?

thanks for any help! I also added a few drops of prime to the tank this morning for good measure. I'm glad that the first fish store I bought my betta from knew what he was selling me, otherwise I might have killed my betta before I even received the tank!
 
1. sometimes bettas can be really agressive and kill other fish, depends on how much space there is and how much the fish looks like another male betta. I suggest returning the other two clouds to the store and instead get an otocinclus algae eater, because otos look nothing even remotely like a betta, and they won't really impede on his space. 2. yes, the filter bag is essential to the nitrogen cycle, but, nitifying bacteria also grows in the substrate as long as there is enough water flow. don't add any more fish until your test shows 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10 or less ppms of nitrates.
 
Bettas generally prefer to be by themselves (especially in such a small tank as 4 gallons) but some do tolerate tankmates. However, the nipped fins of your previous white cloud does suggest to me that you may have a solitude-loving betta on your hands. Keep a close eye on them. If you've got another tank (or want to start up another one) it would be best to do so. Besides the compatibility issue, bettas like warm, tropical waters (around 80), while white clouds prefer cooler temps closer to 65-70 degrees. I don't suggest moving the betta permanently into a vase--much too small.

Until you get your filter situation sorted out, you should do frequent water changes--enough to keep ammonia and nitrites at as close to zero as possible, and nitrates below 20 ppm. Don't add a lot of extra stuff to the water unless it's an emergency situation--IMO water changes are a better solution.
 
thanks all!
another thing I was wondering was if I have dramatically shortened my fishies lifespans due to the prolonged (~24hrs) ammonia exposure yesterday?

Also forgot to state that according to the external themometer I got, the tank is runs about 75 deg at room temp.

fishcatch - as much as i would like to, i don't think i can get a bottom feeder since the biorb's special ceramic rocks apparently will rip the poor fish apart.


perhaps my betta was meant to live a lonely life in it's 4g stomping grounds. it also tends to flare its gills when it sees me outside its tank (maybe it's due to my dark navy blue jacket? he's a bright blue himself), sometimes i think he might see a very faint reflection of himself in the tank when the tank light is on, its a bit strange because try as i might i can't see anything he might be seeing from the opposite side of the tank.

hmm, i'll keep an eye on the remaining 2 white clouds then, maybe get another plastic plant for them to hide or rest in. Once the entire system stablizes my plan was originally to put it in my office as my new officemate. =)

so 1 2.5" betta + 2 3/4-1" white clouds wouldn't be too much for my 4g tank? I'm not quite sure if the fish store will take the white clouds back since I didn't ask before hand.
 
like I said, wait and see what happens. if he attacks the WCs, try to give them back. if they live, keep them. 2 WCs and a betta is not to much for a 4g. you could even add a ghost shrimp to clean up the place.
 
pthalobluebetta said:
don't think i can get a bottom feeder since the biorb's special ceramic rocks apparently will rip the poor fish apart.
Click to expand...

Your fish shouldn't be able to get at the ceramic rocks if there capable of tearing a fish apart. I'm pretty sure the biorb's filter has a tube (filter output) where you put them so they can serve there purpose as part of the bio - filtration, think you can put them there?
 
well, here's an update. i though my fish were doing pretty well.. my betta was no longer harrassing the white clouds and they mutually ignored each other for a while. I've been doing water changes of 25-45% every 24 hours or so, but my ammonia seemed to have gone up again above .25 and while my nitrate stays around 40-60ppm and nitrite at 0. My betta stopped eating the day before yesterday and so did the white clouds.

The last night after doing a water change I thought things might be okay, but then my betta started harassing the white clouds again. At which point I noticed that the smaller white cloud was missing both the top and bottom portion of his tail. Bad betta!

Anyway, I quickly fished out the 2 white clouds into quarantine and will be returning them to the fish store tomorrow. Wow, my betta thinks very highly of himself! Maybe my tank was too small, or maybe my water quality was stressing them all out, or should I have created some cave like hiding spaces besides the plants? Anyway, going without eating for a day and a half, he quickly gobbled down the 4 pellets I fed him today, and is quite lively.

So I guess he'll be living it up in his spacious 4 gallon bachelor's pad =)
At least until I try some ghost shrimp to clean up after him!

thanks for the tips!

dorkfish - i guess the rocks are like gravel and they're supposed to go around the bottom of the tank. They're suppoesd to be okay for regular fish, but not for delicate bottom feeders according to the reefone.com site
 
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