You've gotten some good advice so far. Since you have two tanks you might want to fishless cycle one and compare it to the other with danios. Personally I wouldn't get more fish. I know it's a hard decision but it's always been harder for me to watch fish struggle then to wait for a tank to go through fishless cycling. Most folks here have had similiar experiences so don't be afraid to keep asking questions.
New tank, New fish owner, HELP!!
- Thread starter lethalp
- Start date
Sorry to hear about the guppy.
If you're going to get another tank or redo the empty tank I'd try a fishless cycle. Danios are a favorite for fishy cycling. A lot of nice tetras (neons, cardinals, rummynoses, etc.) are generally thought of as being a little on the sensitive side of the coin. There might be a good tetra but I can't recommend anything. For algae-eaters I'd go with a Siamese Algae Eater (an SAE) over a Chinese Algae Eater (often just marked Algae Eater in the stores). That's if you go for a bigger tank, they get too big for anything smaller than about a 30g. Otos are a nice small algae-eating catfish that would do well in a smaller tank, and are very cute in their own way, but they're also quite sensitive -- people report losing a given percentage even in an established tank, so you'd want to wait on them as well.
Any ammonia is toxic. The toxic levels in the FAQ are crisis-levels, the idea being to stay well south of the crisis levels, but any amount is doing some damage and may kill a sensitive fish.
HTH and good luck getting through.
(And be careful of that bug
)
If you're going to get another tank or redo the empty tank I'd try a fishless cycle. Danios are a favorite for fishy cycling. A lot of nice tetras (neons, cardinals, rummynoses, etc.) are generally thought of as being a little on the sensitive side of the coin. There might be a good tetra but I can't recommend anything. For algae-eaters I'd go with a Siamese Algae Eater (an SAE) over a Chinese Algae Eater (often just marked Algae Eater in the stores). That's if you go for a bigger tank, they get too big for anything smaller than about a 30g. Otos are a nice small algae-eating catfish that would do well in a smaller tank, and are very cute in their own way, but they're also quite sensitive -- people report losing a given percentage even in an established tank, so you'd want to wait on them as well.
Any ammonia is toxic. The toxic levels in the FAQ are crisis-levels, the idea being to stay well south of the crisis levels, but any amount is doing some damage and may kill a sensitive fish.
HTH and good luck getting through.
(And be careful of that bug
)
I don't intend to sound snobbish, but it sounds like you should do some (more?) research before getting more fish. Since you've gotten the bug, it will be interesting anyway
Patience is the hardest concept about this hobby in my opinion (IMO). But in the long run (short run too) you're better off. I'm not so new (that's relative) and still struggle with it.
Patience is the hardest concept about this hobby in my opinion (IMO). But in the long run (short run too) you're better off. I'm not so new (that's relative) and still struggle with it.
more on the 2.5 gal tanks
Ok, I now have 2 danios per tank. One tank has higher Amonia levels than the other one does and both PH levels are about 8.6. I was told to put a very small amount of PH decreaser in the tanks to bring that down. The next person said that most fish will do fine up to 9 on the PH scale. Now it is way late in the game for this question but are 2 danios too much for this tank? Both sets seem to be fighting somewhat. Both sets are the same size. One more time, what water should I be using? I have well water that goes through a softener. I have access to the hard water straight from the well. That water is cold though, dare I ask if I can microwave it? All that said they seem to be ok, how often and how much should I change the water in there? I also cut way back on the feeding, once a day now. Oh Question, I found a 29g Perfecto w/ eclipse hood and filter, 100 watt heater, and a iron stand for $160, is this a good deal? Time to move up in the world, the danios need more space!
Still plugging away at this, Signed, The Indiana Dog Trainer
Ok, I now have 2 danios per tank. One tank has higher Amonia levels than the other one does and both PH levels are about 8.6. I was told to put a very small amount of PH decreaser in the tanks to bring that down. The next person said that most fish will do fine up to 9 on the PH scale. Now it is way late in the game for this question but are 2 danios too much for this tank? Both sets seem to be fighting somewhat. Both sets are the same size. One more time, what water should I be using? I have well water that goes through a softener. I have access to the hard water straight from the well. That water is cold though, dare I ask if I can microwave it? All that said they seem to be ok, how often and how much should I change the water in there? I also cut way back on the feeding, once a day now. Oh Question, I found a 29g Perfecto w/ eclipse hood and filter, 100 watt heater, and a iron stand for $160, is this a good deal? Time to move up in the world, the danios need more space!
Still plugging away at this, Signed, The Indiana Dog Trainer
I think it would be a wiser choice to spend your money on a tank that doesn't come with the filter already with it. You can get a 29 gallon tank with lights pretty reasonable, in the $30-50 range, and buy a filter *that works better* for less cost than an Eclipse setup.
I would advise against using ph-changing chemicals in the tank. They seldom fix the problem, and you're basically flushing money down the toilet with every water change, since you'll have to add them every time if your tapwater's ph is the same as the tank. The fish will be better off in the long run if you find another way to lower your ph, like using peat in your filters or something...I've never had ph problems, so I probably am not the one to advise you on this one.
Danios are pretty small, so "size-wise", no, 2 danios isn't too much for 2-3 gallons. However, they are schooling fish, and will do much better in larger groupings. Less aggression, less stress. In a 29 gallon, you could easily have 6-8 of them and still have "clean up" fish like cory cats in the tank.
Yes, you can microwave your water. The better alternative, however, is to get the water for your tank the day before you add it and let it sit at room temperature overnight.
One good thing--at least with well water, there's no worry of chlorine! You can conceivably take water straight from the well to the tank with no risk of giving your tank chlorine poisoning or destroying the bacterial colonies....
I think your children will be much happier with a big tank where they BOTH can take care of the fish and watch them be happy than each of them having a tank with fish that keep dying.... It'll be easier on your pocketbook in the long run, as well....that is, unless your kids decide they EACH want 55 gallon tanks next to their beds....(I know I did, and we had a 75 gallon in the living room when I was younger...)
I would advise against using ph-changing chemicals in the tank. They seldom fix the problem, and you're basically flushing money down the toilet with every water change, since you'll have to add them every time if your tapwater's ph is the same as the tank. The fish will be better off in the long run if you find another way to lower your ph, like using peat in your filters or something...I've never had ph problems, so I probably am not the one to advise you on this one.
Danios are pretty small, so "size-wise", no, 2 danios isn't too much for 2-3 gallons. However, they are schooling fish, and will do much better in larger groupings. Less aggression, less stress. In a 29 gallon, you could easily have 6-8 of them and still have "clean up" fish like cory cats in the tank.
Yes, you can microwave your water. The better alternative, however, is to get the water for your tank the day before you add it and let it sit at room temperature overnight.
One good thing--at least with well water, there's no worry of chlorine! You can conceivably take water straight from the well to the tank with no risk of giving your tank chlorine poisoning or destroying the bacterial colonies....
I think your children will be much happier with a big tank where they BOTH can take care of the fish and watch them be happy than each of them having a tank with fish that keep dying.... It'll be easier on your pocketbook in the long run, as well....that is, unless your kids decide they EACH want 55 gallon tanks next to their beds....(I know I did, and we had a 75 gallon in the living room when I was younger...)
pH measurements can get out of whack while the tank is cycling. Get a clean bucket of water and let it sit a day or 2...test the pH in there. I would strongly recommend against any chemical pH adjustment as they typically are hard to stabilize in the long run.
One thing to note: Even though you have low amounts of ammonia in your tank, as the pH increases, the toxicity of ammonia increases...so at a pH of 8.6, I'd expect even low levels of ammonia to be toxic.
I agree with PBQ...you'll enjoy a larger tank more...you won't struggle nearly as much. Also, just buy the tank/hood/light together. You'll be better off spending the few extra dollars on a decent filter and a reliable heater.
One thing to note: Even though you have low amounts of ammonia in your tank, as the pH increases, the toxicity of ammonia increases...so at a pH of 8.6, I'd expect even low levels of ammonia to be toxic.
I agree with PBQ...you'll enjoy a larger tank more...you won't struggle nearly as much. Also, just buy the tank/hood/light together. You'll be better off spending the few extra dollars on a decent filter and a reliable heater.
That is some mighty hard water you've got there. At such a high pH, the ammonia is going to be mighty toxic. I don't think very many fish can survive over 9, so I'd kind of ignore that input. It may have started out as "All fish live below pH 9", and just gotten mangled along the way.
Different fish do different things. Some are very flexible and some not so much. According to fishbase, Zebra danios are fine in water from 6-8 pH, which is a broad range. I think that probably has something to do with why they're so hardy. Other fish may not be able to tolerate the high pH as well. A stable pH is more important than a correct pH, and fish can adapt, but I'm not a big fan of going too far outside the preferred range. Stable is much more important than perfect.
My water is very soft and acidic, so my tank is set up to accomodate that. Everyone comes from a soft acidic enviroment. If you want some small community fish that are from a hardwater enviroment you should look at livebearers: platys, mollys, guppies all come from a more alkaline enviroment. Danios and some other stalwarts can also be fine. Tetras and otos may not be a great choice, they like soft and acidic. Here is a nice rundown on biotope aquaria, which are setups that mimic natural enviroments. You can be more or less strict about them, or just mix (a community tank), but if you scroll through you'll see little briefs on the water conditions in each type. I'd look at the fish from ones where the pH goes over 7.5 (which includes Indian/Burmese River, home of the zebra danio) and especially the 2 Central American biotopes (home of the platys, mollys, guppies) all the way at the bottom.
The water softener is not softening the water in way that is meaningful to the fish or the pH. See The Skeptical Aquarist for the details (under Water, Softening). He has a whole section that will detail your options on this. One of the options was partial-softening by boiling (causing some of the carbonates to precipitate out), which may be a solution to your straight from the well question. The water should be as close as practical to the tank when it goes in.
Personally I like to pick and choose and didn't go with a package setup. I'd at least price out the alternative. $160 doesn't seem unreasonable, but it doesn't seem like discount either. I have a 30g, which is a longer and shorter than a 29, but basically the same size. Its a nice size. Try a few searches on heater and filter. Ebo-jager seems to be a very well heater. I have a visitherm, which I think is also fairly well regarded. The downside to a cheap heater is a catastrophic overheating incident (it happens). I'm afraid to mention filters. The debates get quite fierce
(go ahead, try a search ).
HTH
Different fish do different things. Some are very flexible and some not so much. According to fishbase, Zebra danios are fine in water from 6-8 pH, which is a broad range. I think that probably has something to do with why they're so hardy. Other fish may not be able to tolerate the high pH as well. A stable pH is more important than a correct pH, and fish can adapt, but I'm not a big fan of going too far outside the preferred range. Stable is much more important than perfect.
My water is very soft and acidic, so my tank is set up to accomodate that. Everyone comes from a soft acidic enviroment. If you want some small community fish that are from a hardwater enviroment you should look at livebearers: platys, mollys, guppies all come from a more alkaline enviroment. Danios and some other stalwarts can also be fine. Tetras and otos may not be a great choice, they like soft and acidic. Here is a nice rundown on biotope aquaria, which are setups that mimic natural enviroments. You can be more or less strict about them, or just mix (a community tank), but if you scroll through you'll see little briefs on the water conditions in each type. I'd look at the fish from ones where the pH goes over 7.5 (which includes Indian/Burmese River, home of the zebra danio) and especially the 2 Central American biotopes (home of the platys, mollys, guppies) all the way at the bottom.
The water softener is not softening the water in way that is meaningful to the fish or the pH. See The Skeptical Aquarist for the details (under Water, Softening). He has a whole section that will detail your options on this. One of the options was partial-softening by boiling (causing some of the carbonates to precipitate out), which may be a solution to your straight from the well question. The water should be as close as practical to the tank when it goes in.
Personally I like to pick and choose and didn't go with a package setup. I'd at least price out the alternative. $160 doesn't seem unreasonable, but it doesn't seem like discount either. I have a 30g, which is a longer and shorter than a 29, but basically the same size. Its a nice size. Try a few searches on heater and filter. Ebo-jager seems to be a very well heater. I have a visitherm, which I think is also fairly well regarded. The downside to a cheap heater is a catastrophic overheating incident (it happens). I'm afraid to mention filters. The debates get quite fierce
(go ahead, try a search ).HTH
more from the newbie
Hey guys, I am happy to report that both Danios in both tank are doing fine. The Amonia in the one tank is still at 0 and the other tank still has more but it is coming down. YEAH! I have been changing the water in that tank about 25% and as I said I am feeding once a day. I have also been using the hard water side of the facet and either letting it warm to room temp or microwaving it some. I am currently looking for a new bigger tank. I think acrylic is what I want, any opinions on it? The tank I spoke of earlier is glass, so I am still looking. Anyone know of a good place online to look for one? I think 29g or more would be nice. Unfortunatly where I live there aren't many places to shop for one (we don't even have a Walmart here
) so that is why I am looking online. FOr now I think I have the bulk of my questions answered, but once I move up I am sure you will be hearing from me again. I humbly thank you all for your help Dawn
Hey guys, I am happy to report that both Danios in both tank are doing fine. The Amonia in the one tank is still at 0 and the other tank still has more but it is coming down. YEAH! I have been changing the water in that tank about 25% and as I said I am feeding once a day. I have also been using the hard water side of the facet and either letting it warm to room temp or microwaving it some. I am currently looking for a new bigger tank. I think acrylic is what I want, any opinions on it? The tank I spoke of earlier is glass, so I am still looking. Anyone know of a good place online to look for one? I think 29g or more would be nice. Unfortunatly where I live there aren't many places to shop for one (we don't even have a Walmart here
) so that is why I am looking online. FOr now I think I have the bulk of my questions answered, but once I move up I am sure you will be hearing from me again. I humbly thank you all for your help Dawn
Hey, glad to hear things are looking up.
You can order an acrylic aquarium from tenecor.
If you visit the site you'll soon discover the first problem with acrylic is the cost: its more expensive than glass by a bit. It also scratches easier than glass. Its lighter and (I think) stronger than glass, which makes a bigger difference as the tank gets larger, not so much at the smaller sizes.
You can order an acrylic aquarium from tenecor.
If you visit the site you'll soon discover the first problem with acrylic is the cost: its more expensive than glass by a bit. It also scratches easier than glass. Its lighter and (I think) stronger than glass, which makes a bigger difference as the tank gets larger, not so much at the smaller sizes.
Just an idea for the 29-gal on the way--with your high pH (8.2?), you could easily do dwarf African cichlids. They're very colorful, and cichlid parenting behavior is a thing to behold.
Dwarf cichlids are not as nasty as their big cousins, and a pair each of maybe two different species might work really well for you. You could also put some other fish in there with them (tetras? cory cats? You'd have to check out their pH tolerances, I'm not sure which would work well for you.) Some natural colored gravel in there, some plants (there's a post on the plant forum for high-pH plants that will do well), a piece of driftwood ... could be VERY nice! Do a Google.com search on dwarf African cichlids and see what you find. If you're anywhere close to a Petsmart, they carry lots of these, usually, and they don't cost an arm and a leg.
Just an idea ... oh, and I checked out acrylic tanks too, at one time. Two problems: (1) couldn't easily find one, and (2) I learned that they scratch a lot easier than glass, as already mentioned. I wound up going with glass, and I'm happy with it.
-- Pat
Dwarf cichlids are not as nasty as their big cousins, and a pair each of maybe two different species might work really well for you. You could also put some other fish in there with them (tetras? cory cats? You'd have to check out their pH tolerances, I'm not sure which would work well for you.) Some natural colored gravel in there, some plants (there's a post on the plant forum for high-pH plants that will do well), a piece of driftwood ... could be VERY nice! Do a Google.com search on dwarf African cichlids and see what you find. If you're anywhere close to a Petsmart, they carry lots of these, usually, and they don't cost an arm and a leg.
Just an idea ... oh, and I checked out acrylic tanks too, at one time. Two problems: (1) couldn't easily find one, and (2) I learned that they scratch a lot easier than glass, as already mentioned. I wound up going with glass, and I'm happy with it.
-- Pat
