New to fish, advice on FW setup

[necigrad]

So I've finally decided to try the pet thing. Haven't had one of my own since I went to college 13 years ago, and that pet was just the family cat. I've been looking online a bit for the past week or so, and have some ideas.

For right now, I'm planning on a 24G Aquapod with the flourescent lighting, 20# of rock and a 75W heater. Might have been 50W, but I'm not certain off hand. This is my third tank choice, not because I dind't like something, but because of what I can provide an enviroment for. I'd like a tank about 50G, because I hear a moderate sized tank is relativly easy. The wnole "not too big, not too small" thing. But I live in a condo upstairs. That means probably 30G max. I looked at several smaller tanks in the 10-12G range, but I dind't like the fish options. My fish options are limited due to temperature. I live in Vegas, and to save on power keep the AC at 80 in the summer. Snce I'd lower the room temp before spending $600+ on a chiller, I'd like to get set up with the tank at 80.

As I see it, here are the questions I should probably be asking:

Will the Aquapod be a good choice? I've read things (nothing specific) that I thought might imply that they are for saltwater, not fresh. I think it's all right, but I wasn't certain.

Fake plants or live? I don't think it will make much of a difference, but I'm asking questions, so I might as well ask

Fish. Using liveaquaria.com, I can find several fish that will work in a 80* tank and only require 20G. Is it safe to work of of those recommendations?

I appreciate the help. From what I understand fish aren't necessarily complex, but when you're new there's a lot of little things to consider.

 

[cohazard]

The aquapod can be used for fresh, and you should deffinitely use live plants because it has strong lighting... if you don't, you'll be getting an algae bloom.

Personally, I wouldn't order from liveaquaria because most of their fish are overpriced, and paying for shipping can get expensive...

Look around for LFS's (Local Fish Stores) and that way you have a feel for what's available in your area, and how much you can save on shipping.

Do a search on cycling an aquarium (called the nitrogen cycle), it's important you understand how to do it properly otherwise your fish will die and you'll struggle with the tank starting off.

 

[necigrad]

I hadn't really considered where to buy fish yet. I know about cycling, and was planning on buying maybe one or two fish that might be able to handle a new tank to help start it off, adding more later.

I'm glad the Aquapod will work. It's a good size IMO, and it's nice that it's pretty much most of what's needed.

 

[Mofolepo]

Also if you go with live plants, you might want to get more gravel. Initially for my 12gallon I got 15 lbs of gravel, but that wasn't deep enough to bury the roots of my plants... I added 10 more lbs, and I was able to alter the landscape so there's a rolling hill, and all my plants fit nicely under the gravel.

 

[echoofformless]

Fishkeeping is about as complex as you want to make it.

You could content yourself with a very low maintenance setup, where there are only fake plants and hardy fish who can survive a wide range of conditions and even a bit of neglect - or you could opt for a setup that involves very delicate species living in a particularly specific biotope that might require specialized filtration, lighting, water chemistry concerns, and consistent maintenance.



Now for your specific concerns:

For one, fish can happily live in temps above 80 degrees. You will never require a chiller - those are largely for saltwater aquaria. So rest your worries on that issue. As long as temperature changes are gradual, most tropicals can live happily between 72 and 84 degrees. And survive for good periods of time in lower and higher extremes.

Moderate sized tanks...well, I have a controversial opinion regarding tank size. Most people go with this notion that is in line with the accepted canon that the larger the tank, the more stable and easy to maintain. I have not experienced this to be true at all. I have a 5, 10, 20, 40 and 55. And in fact I have far less trouble with the smaller tanks. Not to mention that with every problem you encounter in the larger tanks, it costs a good deal more money and effort to correct it. I wouldn't honestly recommend a tank larger than say, 30-40 gallons for a beginner.

Aquapods - I can't say anything for this product. However I have come across several posts in forums over the past two years which lead me to conclude that a similar product - the JBJ Nano Cube http://www.jbjlighting.com/sys_24g_nanocube.html
has a great deal of problems with leaking and cracking. However this is not to say that Current (the manufacturer of Aquapod) hasn't taken some time to address such issues in their product and come up with a more solid design.

Last in regards to the "all in one" package deals, I have found that I personally prefer to have complete creative control of things I set up - whether it's electronics, aquariums, etc. I like being able to pick out individual components and customize things according to the specific needs I am using them for at the time; as well as to allow expandability should I decide to change setups in the future. Just my opinion....but something to consider.

Fake or live plants depends on your preference. There are many easy care live plants available that you can basically just plant and forget for long periods of time. (Most cryptocorynes, java ferns, anubias, small swords, et al) There are also more difficult plants which might require higher lighting, specific fertilizers, heavy pruning, etc. Again, it's all a matter of choice. Personally I would recommend live plants no matter what difficulty path you prefer. They make for a healthier aquarium and your fish will show better colors and vitality in this more natural environment. In fact the only tank I have with no live plants is a quarantine tank.

Speaking of which, that is another good investment to consider. A small 5 or 10 gallon tank for keeping new fish in for a period of observation time before adding them to your show tank will guarantee that you never inadvertently introduce diseases and pests which will risk the lives of your already established aquarium residents.

Now on the subject of establishing the aquarium - I recommend that you consider fishless cycling. It's not only far less work and probably cheaper than cycling with the fish in the tank, it's also cruelty-free. With this method all you do is add a few drops of ammonia every few days and then test in a few weeks to see if the ammonia and nitrite are gone. Then you do one big water change to reduce nitrates and add the fish. (as opposed to the many water changes and many tests you will do during a fish-in cycle.)

Liveaquaria and also several other sites are always a good place to learn about the individual species that interest you. Of course this site is a great place to come for whatever questions and concerns you have. Most people on here are knowledgeable and quick to answer your questions.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you're taking the time to ensure that you know all of what you need to know before getting started in this hobby. All too often people think they just pour water into a tank, throw in whatever fish they think look cool at the store, and then let nature take its course. Bad for the wallet, cruel to the animals, and well...plain stupid.

Hope this addresses some of your concerns well. And good luck with your new interest in this hobby.

 

[necigrad]

Great help folks, thanks. I'm still waiting for "clearance", because there's a lease issue as well. My lease says "no pets", but I'm a part owner and my folks are the other owner, so that should likely be beatable. It looks like my concerns will not be challenges.

Nothing bad about the Aquapod, and it will work for my needs. I chose it due in no small part to price, and the fact that everything is included. I know one prefered picking each component on their own, and I would like to do that too. Unfortunatly, my price shopping leads me to an addional $100 or more to do it that way. Not what I'd prefer for a first tank. Were I to feel that there might be problems begining with it in the future, I could buy a different tank, filter, etc. over a short period to replace it.

Sounds liike live plants are the way to go, and a relativly high 80* will be fine. Assuming I get a tank, I'll probably drop by after I choose fish and make sure they're good choices. Once the tank is established I'll certianly have to get a picture up so you can see what your pieces of advice lead to

Once again thanks.

 

[necigrad]

Fish tank is a go. I'm tentativly planning on ordering from drsfostersmith.com for everything except live stuff and chemicals. If someone can check this and make sure I've got everything it would be greatly appreciated:

ATI Thermometers Vertical Movable
No Spill Clean 'N Fill 25 feet
Mag-Float Small
Eco-Complete Plant Substrate 20 lbs X2
Stealth Heater 75W
AquaPods 24 gallon, 64W Compact Fluorescent System
AquaPod Stand Pedestal

Tomorrow I'm going to go to a local store that was named in the LFS thread and see what they have. The above is $348.51 after shipping, so I'm going to use that for comparison. I figure if I can piece something comparable there I will.

Once I have a tank I'll also buy the live plants. I'm thinking of just grabbing a mix at the LFS, unless for some reason I need or shoudl avoid certain ones. That should be enough to get the tank cycled, and then I'll have to post for stocking.

Again, appreciate the help.

 

[Rbishop]

You also might want to make a post in the plant section for handling recommendations on new plants to minimize anything they might bring in to your tank.

 

[necigrad]

Regretably I did a good job of starting two threads that are slowly covering both topics. I'm going to keep this one strictly to the tank and fish stocking, adn the other one (in the plants section) hopefully mostly to plants. I guess it's just the nature of the beast. It's an ecosystem, so I start building all the componets all over the forum.

I placed the order that I listed above, and it should be here in a week or so, maybe sooner. This gives me plenty of time to come up with a list of fish. So far, here's the possibilities. I haven't tested my tap water yet, so I have no clue what's in there, though I dont' have a water softener. Also please remember this tank will need to be at 80*, maybe a touch higher due to ambient temperatures outside exceeding 110* occasionally. Most of the specific species are listed after the general species being recommended, then me picking what might work in the tank conditions based on the infoo from liveaquaria.com. I don't know where I'll be purchacing from, I'm just using it for info right now.

TETRAS: one or two schools of 6-8, no decision on specifics yet
Cardinal, Silver Tip, Green Fire, Royal Black Emperor, Head & Tail Light, Black Skirt, Penguin, Black Phantom, Diamond Head, Red Minor Serpae
HARLEQUIN RASBORA: Maybe 1 school of 8, possibly 10
Sparkling, Neon Blue Dwarf, Honey Dwarf, Opaline, Powder Blue Dwarf, Blue, Gold, Licorice
CICHLIDS: One? Two?
German Blue Ram, Bolivian Ram, Appistogramma, Double Full Red Cockatoo, Orange Cockatoo, Black Stripe Dwarf, Panda Dwarf, Double Full Red Agassizi, German Golden Ram

I've got this list here, and one of the things I've noticed while building it is that sometimes the sites recomendations don't always jive with the advice given here. Personally, I think that means the site is a guideline, but the are many reaching exceptions. Ideally, since we're probably at least 3 weeks away, I'd love if folks can take the time to help me refine the list. Add, subtract, whatever. Then I will (hopefully) have a good list to pick from based on my tastes, or availability. Will corries fit into this tank well? I see they're only recommended for 30G+. I don't have any theme in particular, but I would like this to be a planted community I think. I would probably be happy with 10-12 fish, though more would be nice. And I don't care about fish size, but I don't want all 1" fish.

I know I keep saying it, but I really do appreciate the avice I get. There is just far too much information to learn at first, and regretably, based on my learning needs, I find it best to learn in moderate chucks. Learn the very basics, and have guidance or setups for other stuff. Then later revisit the stuff that I dind't know and relied on help with.

 

[necigrad]

My tank should hopefully be here by the end of next week (supposedly Thursday). I've been thinking, and in addition to the plants I'm going to try for 1 piece of driftwood and some shale. I've kinda got a few ideas in my head involving both. One idea is to just take a piece or three of shale and lean it on the driftwood. The other idea is to get numerous smaller pieces of shale and glue them (aq safe silicone?) and make a small cave system.

Will this require any prep? Do I need to soak the driftwood for a while before throwing it into the tank? If so that's certiany something I could do now, let it sit in a bucket for the week or something. Will shale from a landscaping nursery be safe, and would it need smooth edges? I don't know if sharp edges are a problem, but I'm guessing they might be.