Newbie Cory Question

[im4god2]

Hi!

I just got a 10 gallon tank a week ago, and am having problems with a cory. I ran the power filter for 24 hours, temp was 77, ph was 7.5+. I worked on the ph all day, almost using a half bottle of "Ph down", but it wouldn't drop.

I got two albino corys, two zebra danio's, and two other small "transparent" fish (sorry - don't know the type). The first two days, all was well. Then one of the corys started getting very sluggish. Now, it just lies on the bottom, without gill movement, looking around. Before you say "HE'S DEAD !", he gets up about every 5 minutes and shoots to the surface for a gulp of air. He then settles back down to the bottom, and repeats. I did a 20% water change after 5 days, and added two tablespoons of aquarium salt. He perked up a little, but is now back to the same mode. The tank is still cycling - ammonia reached 4 yesterday. The other fish seem perfectly fine. The other cory also does the gulping, but is very active about 75% of the time.

Do I have problems ?

Thanks !

 

[Faramir]

First thing you've learnt is that pH down doesn't work in tanks where it would be really useful. 7.5 is fine. I suspect your water is rather hard.

What was the reasoning behind the salt?

Have you checked the ammonia and nitrite levels? I smell "new tank syndrome".

 

[im4god2]

Reply

My LFS said aquarium salt was the "miracle drug" for general ills, including stress. She recommended trying it. Ammonia was around 1 when the cory started getting sluggish. It went to 2, and I did the 20% water change. Last night, it was up to 4.

My LFS person says not to worry about nitrites and nitrates. If I do regular water changes, the tank will cycle, and all should be well.

Me thinks I may be placing too much trust in the LFS.

 

[Faramir]

You are. Those levels of ammonia are quite harmful. Salt will help prevent nitrite poisoning, but not against ammonia. According to http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html, at your pH 7.3ppm total ammonia would be fatal in an hour in salmon. You can see therefore that 4ppm is pretty serious. Even a level below 1ppm could be fatal if it persists for more than a very few days.

Salt is not a cure-all and is contra-indicated for corydoras, at least as a long term treatment.

Your fish shop is wrong. Water changes will slow the cycling process, but without them, your fish will almost certainly die. What they should have done is sold you the zebras and told you to come back in a couple of weeks or more for more fish.

All you can do now is sit it out. Live plants would soften the process. Even if you don't intend to go planted ultimately, a couple of bunches of hygrophila difformis at least whilst the cycling goes on, might just save your fish. Plants take up metabolites, presumably for their own amino acid synthesis. You can make sugar out of CO2, light and water, but protein's a bit harder!

[edited because I got the ammonia toxicity and pH stuff wrong at first.]

 

[im4god2]

Thanks

Thanks - I'll see if I can find those plants at another LFS

 

[Faramir]

Even if you can't, any plant will do the job. That particular species I picked because it is very undemanding and will settle down and start "working" quickly. If you do want a planted tank anyway, pick something you like. Avoid Cabomba though - very pretty, popular and readily available but hard alkaline water'll kill it pretty quick.

 

[wetmanNY]

The plants have to be actively photosynthesizing and growing, or else they're part of the bioload and no help at all.

By now you've done a couple of water changes to get that half bottle of pHDown diluted out of the system. (You da bad one! Almost anything used at that strength is likely to be toxic.) For the sake of your Cory, keep doing the water changes to keep the ammonia levels down.

Do you have chloramines in your tapwater? That would account for some of your ammonia readings. Have you been using AmQuel? It would be a good idea, for the sake of your fish. AmQuel will bind the freed ammonia, but leave it available for your nitrifying bacteria. Quite essential right now, I'd say.

You should be reading up on basic cycling and water chemistry now. Try www.thekrib.com www.aaquaria.com www.skepticalaquarist.com and look through the articles here at AquariaCentral.

I'd alsostrongly recommend Adrian Tappin's Rainbowfish site at http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/ Read his articles on water.

 

[im4god2]

Update

Here's an update:

I couldn't find the plant suggested, and all of the plants at the store(s) looked almost black (small stores). I came back home and did a 20% water change. The cory is now a new fish ! He basically came back to life and looked good this morning, swimming and eating.

I spent about a week reading these posts and checking out one fish book, so I was pretty familiar with the cycling process before I bought the setup. I just rushed it, I think. Plus I probably overfed them, too.

I've been using a product to handle the chlorine and chloramines, but thanks for the info on AmQuel. I don't think what I've used does the same thing.

Thanks for all the help !

Just call me a "newbie" - at least for a little while more.

 

[Faramir]

The plants have to be actively photosynthesizing and growing, or else they're part of the bioload and no help at all.

I have to disagree. Plants will not contribute to the bioload - they do not produce ammonia, for example - unless they die and start rotting. I grant you an actively growing plant will take up more nitrogen, but even a struggling one still requires nitrogenous input. I specifically selected H. difformis because it settles in very quickly in my experience. Egeria densa is similar.

Photosynthesis will be happening in any live plant - this is easily identified by the classic school science experiment where you take a lump of water plant and collect the gas given off, then demonstrate that it is oxygen. This is usually successfully done with a lump of Elodea that hasn't seen a decent substrate in weeks.

I offer this advice because it has always worked for me - in any planted tank, I can put fish straight in (not a full load, obviously) and I do not get an ammonia or nitrite spike like I would in an unplanted tank.

Call me a plant evangelist if you like, but I really think they help this process.

 

[im4god2]

Update

Gang,

Everything seems to be much better now. I slowed down the feeding from twice a day (and twice too much each time). The tetras are much more active and all my fish seem much happier.

I've had the tank going over a month now, and my ammonia just went to 0 yesterday (yay!). Everything that I've been doing wrong has slowed the cycle down to a crawl. I think once it completes, things should be "normal". My water is almost totally clear now.

Thanks for the advice !