Newbie that needs help!

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aquarium_addict

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Feb 6, 2006
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Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I am posting to try and get some help with setting up a freshwater tank. I am not new to fish keeping as I have been keeping saltwater tanks for several years including FOWLR and reef tanks. My current tank is a 58 gallon reef and I am currently building a 180 gallon reef.

My questions center around setting up a 10 gallon freshwater tank for my office. I have tried to keep a nano reef in my office (which did well for a while) however it became difficult to care for, and with protein skimming a sump etc it was taking up more room than I wanted.

I tried keeping freshwater in the past, including a 20 gallon freshwater plant tank, without much success. I'm really not sure why. I have had awesome luck keeping saltwater fish and coral so I'm not sure why keeping freshwater was so problematic.

Can anyone recommend some resources or a basic outline for setting up a freshwater tank? How about filtration and options for accomplishing this. I know that reef tanks, as an example, rely on live rock and sand to carryout the nitrogen cycle as well as protein skimming to remove dissolved organics and other waste. How is the nitrogen cycle carried out in a freshwater tank? What are the popular methods for filtration? And how about lighting? I have used everything from 40W flourcent tubes to 175W metal halides and power compact actinic's for lighting. What is commonly used on freshwater tanks?

Any direction is greatly appreciated.
 
Well you have come to the right spot. This place is full of professionals.
I am definitely not a professional by any means but here is my two cents worth.

Typically the ph for saltwater is in the 8.5 range with hard alkaline water. Is this what your water is naturally? Are you using any buffers to get your ph to this level? My water here in MN is 8.5 and I have to use a R/O filter to get it closer to 7.0 since most of the fish that I like prefer that range. If your water is in the 8.5 range maybe consider some cichlids since they like those water parameters.

The other thing I think you may find helpful is all of the information on the fishless cycle, etc. As I am sure that you are well aware especially since you are a seasoned pro at saltwater the smaller the tank the more room for error.

I would first start with checking your water parameters and than going from there. There are a lot of plants out there that are easy to care for and do not need intense lighting. One of my favorites is Java Fern.

Good Luck,

AQUA_OBSESSION
 
How about filtration and options for accomplishing this. I know that reef tanks, as an example, rely on live rock and sand to carryout the nitrogen cycle as well as protein skimming to remove dissolved organics and other waste. How is the nitrogen cycle carried out in a freshwater tank? What are the popular methods for filtration?
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The nitrogen cycle is carried out by bacteria that colonize the tank naturally. They live on stuff: filter media, the glass, rocks gravel, mostly everywhere except for actually in the water column.

You can cycle with fish (which is bad for the fish, many threads on this) or without fish (much better for the fish, try a search for 'fishless cycle'). The short version of fishless is that you dose the tank with clear plain store bought ammonia until the biological filter is up and running (typically 3-4 weeks) and then add fish.

For small and especially for fish-only tanks, most folks go with a Hang-On-the-Back (HOB) filter. Folks with larger and especially for planted often go with External Canisters. There are other options, but those are the main two. Some folks like Under Gravel Filters (UGF) and if you google Robert T Ricketts and RUFG you'll find a good article on Reverse UGFilters.

Regular water changes get rid of the nitrate and dissolved organics, &c.

And how about lighting? I have used everything from 40W flourcent tubes to 175W metal halides and power compact actinic's for lighting. What is commonly used on freshwater tanks?
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Fish Only doesn't need any special lights: regular fluorescent will do, color and brightness to taste, although less bright may help with algae (I wouldn't use CF, for instance).

Planted is a whole other kettle of fish. Brighter lights, generally, lots of options and theories: see the planted tank forum. There's a high-tech camp and a low-tech camp. Both use more light than FO, high light means fertilizer, supplemental CO2, wide variety of plants. Low light means less equipment, attention to balance but fewer test tubes and pipettes, and a narrower range of plants.

Hope that helps…
 
As far as water goes, I use only RO/DI. Typically, I use RO/DI to strip out everything from tap water and add back reef crystals as my sea salt mix. ph usually ends up around 8.2 - 8.4 and is maintained using kalkwasser (limewater) dosing to replace daily water evaporation.

If I use RO/DI for freshwater what do you mix with the water to "condition it" for the freshwater tank. By adding a synthetic salt to the water, it adds back ions, trace elements, and buffer to make the water the equivlant to sea water in saltwater applications. I assume you can't use straight RO/DI in a freshwater tank as you need some ions, electrolytes, etc to make the water pH stable. I have noticed in the past that when using a pH probe with newly made RO/DI water is fluctuates wildly due to lack of ions or "anything" in the water.

As far as a filter, is it as simple as using a HOB filter? For reef tanks there are all kinds of parameters that need checking, a nitrogen cycle to establish and maintain, protein skimming to remove excess nutrients, etc. Is there an equivalant concept in freshwater? Or is it as simple as filling the tank with water, adding a HOB filter, adding decorations and fish, turing onthe lights and letting the tank go? If you used this approach in saltwater the tank would crash from not having a "cycled" tank with an established nitrogen cycle.
 
You'd be better off just using your tap water. RO, as you said, just strips out everything that you need and you'll have to put it all back in again.

Best thing to do is test your tap water for pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, GH, KH and if you feel adventurous and have the kits: chlorine, phosphates and iron.

If you can post your readings, we can tell you just how simple the water part will be :)

Roan
 
aquarium_addict said:
As far as a filter, is it as simple as using a HOB filter? For reef tanks there are all kinds of parameters that need checking, a nitrogen cycle to establish and maintain, protein skimming to remove excess nutrients, etc. Is there an equivalant concept in freshwater? Or is it as simple as filling the tank with water, adding a HOB filter, adding decorations and fish, turing onthe lights and letting the tank go? If you used this approach in saltwater the tank would crash from not having a "cycled" tank with an established nitrogen cycle.
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If you use that approach in freshwater, the fish usually die.

There is a nitrogen cycle and it needs to be established, same as salty. Regular water changes remove nitrates and dissolved organics. Plants will remove nitrates (see 'veggie filter'), not so much the rest of the stuffs… still need water changes. Some folks have experimented with plenums, denitrifiers, fluidized bed filters, etc. There's a reason (can't remember what) that protein skimmers won't work in freshwater… think its got something to do with the bubbles not holding up… nothing to replace water changes for removing the organics. Still need the water changes.

As far as the water goes: some folks use RO/DI if they want to do heavy water modification. For a normal person with a normal tank, normal water and normal plants and fish its just not necessary.

If you had ludicrously hard water and wanted to breed discus, keep certain plants, stuff like that, people do use it. For a 10 gallon with typical readily available fish? Anything from mid-6s to low 8s is fine pH-wise. I think fish are better off if the water is similar to they're native range, but most common fish can live comfortably in a pretty wide swath of pH. Specialty fish may require specialty water.

Fish should be slowly acclimated when moving from one enviroment to another to avoid osmotic shock. Its always a good idea to ask the Fish Store what their parameters are. Water should stay fairly consistent: regular changes promote stability. Stability is good. Chemical mods tend to create instability and should be avoided.

If you need to make mods for a specific reason and know what you're doing, then RO/DI is where I'd start. You can make a Fresh tank as complicated as a Reef if you want to. You just don't have to.
 
I might suggest one of the all in one tank systems from Marineland Eclipse, or one of the imported tank lines such as ViaAqua or Jebo. I have a couple of very nice 27 gallon curved glass arched front tanks with a combination hood system. The hood system contains an enclosed Flourescent lighting system and an overhead "wet/dry" filter. The filter isn't a true wet/dry as most of the media is under water all the time, but after the tank is cycled the filter does an excellent job of keeping the water clean and maintaining the balance. The powerhead has a venturi system that aerates the water magnificently. My tanks are APBI branded, but are actually from the same manufacturer of the ViaAqua line. Here's a link to check them out:

http://www.petserendipity.com/Produ...R.jpg&pn=OrcaTechnic 27 G Nano System&bg=Blue

These tanks make excellent table or desk top aquariums that require little maintenance.

Once you set it up where you want it to go, fill it up with water and your favorite water treatment. I recommend Prime or Stress Coat. Prime is highly concentrated and will go much further than any other water treatment and also works to neutralize ammonia and nitrites if they get too high. Put in the heater, acclimate and then plug it in. Start the filter. Let it run overnight or so, and then add a fish or two and Bio-Spira. Bio-Spira is a Marineland product that should be kept refrigerated, so be sure your local fish store handles it properly. Bio-Spira can cycle your tank in as little as a day, but a few days is more likely. You could actually add up to four fish to make sure they produce enough Ammonia to feed the bacteria from the Bio-Spira pack. You don't want the Bio-Spira to starve to death. In the overhead filter's primary chamber under the spraybar, I would throw in some ceramic rings covered with a filter pad. In the secondary chamber, I would put in a filter pad or filter floss and a media bag full of charcoal. You can add or substitute different kinds of Bio-media as you see fit. If you decide on an Elicpse system, the filter setup will differ, but the results will be the same.

Make sure to carefully monitor the Ammonia and Nitrite content once or twice a day for the first two weeks. Especially watch the Nitrite spike. If possible, borrow, beg or steal some gravel or a filter pad from a mature tank as well.

It's actually much easier to setup and maintain than any of your SW stuff. Just do regular water changes and test occasionally.





This tank houses a breeding pair of Neoplamprologus Brichardi, another member of their colony-a small female, and about 2 dozen fry. They are/were sleeping as I just turned on the lights to take these snaps. The Ceramic rings are under the filter pad in the primary chamber.
 
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Here's the male and King of the tank........



Oh, and incidentally, the floating objects in the tank are plastic shotgun wads. I use them for bio-media in canister filters, and always float them in tanks. In a mature tank, they get covered with beneficial bacteria, and will give a real shot in the arm to troubled or new tanks. Also helps when moving fish from one tank to another. Move the fish, and move some of the bio-media with it.
 
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Thanks for all the info thus far. I have been reading about some of the options and I am thinking of either:

1. Getting an AquaClear 50, an All-Glass or Perfecto deluxe hood, use my 50W heater and 10 gallon tank and go from there.

2. Get an Eclipse 12 kit and use my 50W heater.

3. Get an Eclipse 1 to fit my 10 gallon and use my 50W heater.

I am thinking that I may want to keep a few live plants later on and was reading about flourite and laterite. Are these 100% necessary? Also, can you keep plants with ciclids? As I recall you can't as the fish can have a tendency to tear up the tank? Also, you can't mix them with other species? How many would fit in a 10 gallon?

I also am considering a mixture of tetras, swordfish etc and leave it at thiat for now.
 
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