Newbie with a mandarin, OH NO!!

[blosserl]

Take a deep breath and please be patient.
My, well meaning, sister saw and couldn't resist a Mandarin Dragonet from a LFS. It should not have been sold to her, she did say I had a 'new' tank but the store clerk/owner was (I think) just thrilled with the sale.

SO PLEASE... help me out with the best advice you have... Other than "take him back". His chances there are probably not much better than with me... maybe less, since I will go WAY out of my way than possibly the next buyer.
I KNOW, I shouldn't have a mandarin.:banher:

Romeo (that's his name) arrived Sunday afternoon. Monday I found a posting with a lot of info and positive encouragement to maintaining this finicky eater, it also lead me to 'Ocean Pods' and Adelaide Rhodes, PhD; which I called and order immediately. I expect it by Thursday. I hope to have a gourmet of healthy copepods asap. ....but how soon will that be and will it be soon enough?!!

The LFS said that they feed him with bloodworms which my sister bought and I tried (did not see him eat). I called another LFS and was told that they use Cyclops by H2o Life (not Cyclop-eeze that I have read a lot of good thing about), the trip was made to buy some and I will try.
Finally, (your probably saying: get to the point!:wall Here are some main concerns and questions:

1. Is my tank even ready to host any livestock!!!
My tank (12G) Cad Light was started with a lot of cured Namoli Live Rock that I had shipped to me from Aquacon. The tank runs at 20X per hour with a 250 GPH pump and has a surface skimmer intake (bio-balls & padding filter) with a 32W T5 light strip (2/10,000K and 2/Actinic blues). It has been maintained at 75/76 F (no protein skimmer), an extra nano powerhead in the tank to boost circulation and NOTHING else except some PurpleUp every couple days for about six weeks. Oh, and live sand, also shipped in saltwater. I have read a LOT saying the tank should be at least a year old to be able provide for a Mandarin.

My tank shows some ' plum' colored growth that was a very copper color; some brown, red, green (even bright almost fluorescent) as well. There is also some short, 'fur' like, off white growth on some pieces of the branch rock. The water is very clear and tests within all the normal 'recommended' perimeters.

I have been told, yes, because my rock was cured. But I am uncertain because of soo much written about 'cycling'. I never had a bad smell (proof that the rock was cured ??). I never got an 'ammonia, nitrite, nitrate spike'. Should I have still done the "frozen shrimp" thing. I was not told to. but....

2. What should I expect to see with my little guy?
I have read so much on how hard it is to nourish him but I really don't know how to expect him to act. When I put him in the tank he was cautious but very active. Once he determined there was no danger (remember he is all alone), he was all over. He seemed to brush across the short, fur-like growth on the branch of rock, and also seemed to enjoy putting himself in the current of the powerhead. Very showy, and posturing. Yesterday, less active, yet he did hovered by some rock (almost hugging it) where there was current. TODAY, I have yet to see him out and about. He is in a familiar (how 'familiar' can you get with 2 days), at the back of the tank, tucked by a rock just above the surface floor. I'd almost think he was dead if I couldn't see his little lips 'kissing' the water. Is it normal to rest in the day?
I have not seen him eat, but cannot be sure he hasn't. Could he be getting some nourishment from my 'young' tank? Is this too much to hope for? I will try some of the Cyclops today. How often, and how much?? I was told every other day, one cube. But I have only one fish. (note: the English at both stores was very difficult to understand) I hate to just keep adding food he is not eating.

Can anyone describe a Mandarin's habits? What would indicate trouble?

ANY HELPFUL ADVICE/SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE SOOOO APPRECIATED!

I apologize for this lengthy yet fast (maybe premature) posting. I have only read very little in your forum. My situation may already be addressed and answered and I just haven't found it. What I have read, seems to be very helpful and friendly.

I thank all ahead of time for even giving me your patience and attention.

 

[Ace25]

IMO you have no food in your tank for him. If you don't want to hear "take him back" then my only suggestion from my experience is try the following. I just went through this 6 months ago with a Mandarin that I have been wanting for 5 years in my reef. Even after 5 years of setup my tank/refugium still could not sustain a pod population big enough to feed a mandarin.

1. Go buy some frozen blood worms, Reef Nutrition Arcti Pods, and LiquidLife Marine Plankton. (Oops, I see you did get some, Marine Plankton does have Cyclopeze in it)

2. Try and squirt some Marine Plankton in a spot without flow so it sits somewhere and watch. This was all I could get my Mandarin to eat for the first 2 weeks... but he ate it readily. I tried blood worms in the beginning but he wouldn't touch them at first.

3. Whether or not he takes to the marine plankton, also feed him some Arcti Pods (This is food just for picky fish like Mandarins) as well as a little frozen blood worms. Within a month I got my Mandarin eating tons of bloodworms and arcti pods and now he is fat and happy. It was definately a scary first few weeks because I was one of those "rescue the fish and see" type with the Mandarin. It was already very skinny in the store and from everything I read that usually always results in death. Luckly that wasn't my case.

More Bloodworms and Arcti Pods please!

 

[blosserl]

Thank you... more questions

Thank you so much for the info.
I will find and get some of Reef Nutrition Arcti Pods, and LiquidLife Marine Plankton.... I will also have "Ocean Pods" to harvest my own copepods. Do you have any knowledge on it? http://www.oceanpods.com

You mentioned to 'squirt some'... I did do this with the bloodworms trying to 'plant' some in the substrate. How much is "some", and how often??

Can you tell me about the Mandarin's behavior? Does he rest a lot during the day? Should I see moving around a lot?

I followed the link to your tank - WOW!

Again...Thank for your time!erv:

 

[Ace25]

The problem with Ocean Pods is like the TiggerPods that Reef Nurtition sells. They are live instead of dead (Arcti Pods are dead, but LOTS of them). With the ocean pods you put them in your tank to "seed" the tank so they will populate.. problem is, when you throw them in with a Mandarin he will eat them all before they have a chance to reproduce. Will it be good food for the Mandarin? Yes, definately, but it is cost prohibitive to keep doing it. I tried 2 $30 bottles of TiggerPods to see if I could seed my tank.. no luck populating. That was $60 in food for a fish I paid $5 for. Now I went with the Arcti Pods and 1 bottle will last me a month for only $20. So when I go to get other frozen food I pick up a bottle of the Arcti pods.

By "some" I mean just 1 or 2 thick drops. Marine Plankton comes in a little squirt bottle. If your using a frozen cube of bloodworms, I would just slice off a tiny amount, maybe 1/5th of the cube at most. You can do this several times a day at first though but make sure to do some more frequent water changes for the short term while you get him adjusted and eating. You don't want to foul up the water. I still feed my Mandarine 3-4 times a day with just Arcti Pods.. just a drop at a time in a low flow area. Once a day I throw in blood worms with the rest of the food like mysis, brine, etc for the rest of the fish and he will eat most of the blood worms while the others eat the shrimp. Unfortunately I have not seen my Mandarin take to any shrimp.. he has tasted them but spits them back out.

As far as behaviour.. first week or so my Mandarin stayed pretty much in one spot. I do have a lot of other fish though. After a week, and lots of (over)feeding of my tank to get him to eat, he started to come out. Now he swims everywhere and isn't afraid of any other fish I have in the tank.

 

[blosserl]

You explained a lot, thanks!

Words like 'some' and 'little' can mean so many things. I am going to do as suggested, watch, read some more and wait.

I am glad to hear that your guy stayed pretty much in one spot. That eases my mind some. I guess it really is best for him, in that he is using less energy.

I will post back on my experiences with OceanPods. They have been shipped. I was reading about culturing them in mason jars to keep them going...I will have research that more. I was also told about a podcast the explains and demonstrates this.

I will definitely be doing a LOT of reading.... this forum for one!

Please let me know if you think of anything else.

ps: I have 3 other tanks that have the same start up, although they are two very small (5G) and the largest (39G). They have no livestock. Should I do the 'frozen shrimp' with them even though they are starting with LR and LS? ....I probably should have started a new post for this question.

 

[cav]

I read from a fish health expert on another site that you shouldn't feed blood worm to marine fish as it is a freshwater food and cause digestion problem with marine fish

 

[Ace25]

Hmm, never heard that one. I wonder how much truth there is to it. Kind of odd that every LFS I have ever been to sells bloodworms as a SW fish diet. Have any other information or links that would back that?

 

[Subliminal]

Ace, with the live pods, I don't see how you can say that he 'ate them all' since a good portion of them probably hid in the rock and in the algae or whatever.

But, as you say, this can be costly. Your tank is 12g, so you're probably not going to get a pod population going inside the tank that will support your mandarin. Which means your only real option to having a self sustaining mandarinish ecosystem is to get a fuge of some sort going to populate your tank.

Other than that, Ace probably has the only way...regular feedings of food it will accept.

 

[Reefscape]

I read from a fish health expert on another site that you shouldn't feed blood worm to marine fish as it is a freshwater food and cause digestion problem with marine fish

Sorry, but i am going to dissagree with that. Bloodworms have been fed to marine fish in captivity for many many and no ill effects have been seen or proven, with no documented written knowledge of this...They are fine to feed to marine life as a treat, but not as a main diet...

 

[Ace25]

Well, I say that because I put in TiggerPods.. those are the free swimming type of pods, not really the rock dwelling smaller copepod types. Plus with 10 other hungry fish in my tank, some that can get into every nook and cranny, I have yet to see any pods since the 3rd day after I threw them in my tank. There could be some left, actually I really hope there is some, but if there is I doubt there enough to do any major population changes in the tank. Maybe the OceanPods will work out better than TiggerPods because those are the rock dwelling type of pods.