On a generic level, fishing keeping is no different than keeping other pets, plants or any other hobby. Level of dedication, passion, and love varies from person to person. As a fish keeper I'm more similar to spartan than tornangel. Some people keep fish for the same reason as they hang a painting on the wall. As long as they provide good, basic care, I don't see anything wrong with that. Some people keep fish as real pets - something to love, name, and talk to - hats off to you but don't think your way is the only 'correct' way.
Newbies ask yourself this Question before Starting the Hobby
- Thread starter tornangel012
- Start date
I never said it was the CORRECT way I'm saying that collecting is different then keeping in the way that you CARE about you fish as much more then just a SHOW PIECE. People who collect CAN take care of fish very well but I find that majority of the interactions I have with People on this forum have been more KEEPERS then COLLECTORS. It's just different people's ways of living lives.
I just want to point out to Newbies that when we ask questions and get a Lil heated it's because we CARE about our pets these fish so we want to do what's BEST for them OVERALL. NOT all people see Fish as pets just like a LOT of people don't think of Cats of Dogs as pets that need necessary attention.
Think however you will, I was just hoping that some newbies will read this and perhaps think hard before they really DELVE into this "hobby" or whatever you want to call it. Let them decice how they want to treat these fish. I'm not intending to reach EVERYONE but I'll be happy if just a few can think on this.
I just want to point out to Newbies that when we ask questions and get a Lil heated it's because we CARE about our pets these fish so we want to do what's BEST for them OVERALL. NOT all people see Fish as pets just like a LOT of people don't think of Cats of Dogs as pets that need necessary attention.
Think however you will, I was just hoping that some newbies will read this and perhaps think hard before they really DELVE into this "hobby" or whatever you want to call it. Let them decice how they want to treat these fish. I'm not intending to reach EVERYONE but I'll be happy if just a few can think on this.
Which brings up this irony...
If you love the fish so much, why even bother trying to keep them in an artificial environment in the first place?
It puzzles me of such hositility against newbies who try to get into the hobby?
Fish are cheap.
I saw a rich lady with her 4 year old kid at the LPS this weekend.
The kid was just running around telling his mom which fish he wanted.
The rich lady then proceeded to tell the sale girl to get the fish her son wanted.
Now, I'd like to see you guys convince her of proper fish keeping and what the work "overstocked" means.
In the 20 minutes they were there, they had close to 20 fish (mollies, corys, barbs) that I overheard was going into a 10G tank...go figure.
The kid was still running around picking fish when we left.
Now, in a utopia, it would be easy to get people to listen to proper advice.
I'm not arguing against what your position is...I'm arguing if it was really necessary to start up another thread on the same subect?
Don't we already have a stickie on this very subject?
Or is this some monthly or bimonthly reminder on the whole subject?
This forum already has problems with resources; can't we all try and conserve the computer resources by paring down the unnecessary?
If you love the fish so much, why even bother trying to keep them in an artificial environment in the first place?
It puzzles me of such hositility against newbies who try to get into the hobby?
Fish are cheap.
I saw a rich lady with her 4 year old kid at the LPS this weekend.
The kid was just running around telling his mom which fish he wanted.
The rich lady then proceeded to tell the sale girl to get the fish her son wanted.
Now, I'd like to see you guys convince her of proper fish keeping and what the work "overstocked" means.
In the 20 minutes they were there, they had close to 20 fish (mollies, corys, barbs) that I overheard was going into a 10G tank...go figure.
The kid was still running around picking fish when we left.
Now, in a utopia, it would be easy to get people to listen to proper advice.
I'm not arguing against what your position is...I'm arguing if it was really necessary to start up another thread on the same subect?
Don't we already have a stickie on this very subject?
Or is this some monthly or bimonthly reminder on the whole subject?
This forum already has problems with resources; can't we all try and conserve the computer resources by paring down the unnecessary?
tornangel012 said:
Contrary to your first line your last shows that you do feel it is the correct way. f8ldzz has it right. We are infact enjoying a hobbie of imprisonment. Get a grip.
f8ldzz said:
If you feel that way then you are entitled to your opinion. But if you do feel that way I believe that there are better ways of expressing your opinion.So there is a sticky this subject, but how many times do see people post the exact same question that the answer is already provided in a sticky, too many to count.The reason people come here is to help or be helped, so you call it hositility but I call it advice. Who is saying that writing here is going to change everybodys mind, no one I think. Just for the record do you honestly believe that rich lady is posting here? I dont think so(you never know although).
I think you have to look around a little bit more, the majority of people who post here are serious about this "hobby" as you so eloquently described. As for that discussion is a dog or a cat any different to a fish(what is it with people and cold blooded animals, they are thought of as lesser animals in many peoples eyes) do you call owning a dog a hobby? if so then it gose to show that it is in the eye of the beholder. Do you judge everything on monetary value alone? fish are living creatures just like a dog or a cat or for that matter an elephant. It is this mentality that has caused so many animals to become extinct(maybe I am going too far here). When I buy fish I make sure that they are breed fish not wild fish so as the fish numbers in the wild are not reduced on my account.
So if this thread or the bi-monthly thread was to change just one persons way at looking at this hobby then I think it is a success and well worth the computer resources. Let me also remind you that there is many newbies signing up to this site so you may have read the same sort of post a hundred times, but to them it is most probably their first.You have free will so if it bothers you don't read it.
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Phycha said:
This is very true we are infact enjyoying a hobbie of imprisonment,just like in the keeping of any other animals. Nobody in their right mind would try to deny that fact. The point which you have seemed to have missed is that if you are going to keep fish make sure you do you best to give your fish the best possible enviroment and give them the care they deserve. This maybe a contradicting statement but as f8ldzz has said we don't live a utopia so people are going to continue to keep fish regardless of the ramifications. So if you are going to keep fish put them in the biggest tank you can afford and look after them as best you can and if you feel it is ok to mistreat fish or animals for that matter, be my guest.
Swimfins
This is as good as it gets.
spartan said:
I think TornAngel was referring to newbies who fall in love with all the fish in the stores and then mix and match according to prettyness, not according to species and compatibility, and housing.
Experienced fishkeepers are collectors too, but knowing how to keep them and supplying adequate environments is different from what most newbies think, and do. This is how I understood her post. Before it was shredded apart by you 'experienced fish collectors'.
And another thing. I've seen newbies on here admit they've done it all wrong, no thanks to the LFS who sold the fish of course. But many newbies have accepted lot of advice from we on here who care to respond to their questions. I have seen many posts on here where people took back fish from overstocked tanks or started up new tanks, dividing up their tanks as per advice given.
If TornAngels's post alerts some people, its all for the good, n'est pas?
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ashdavid, I'm not advocating the mistreatment of animals. What I'm saying is that when people get the warm fuzzes inside about how perfect they are keeping there fish, they are in fact deluding themselves to the reality of the crime they are committing against there beloved fish.
hobby of imprisonment? possibly
but on the other hand, if they were left in the wild they would be prone to dangers such as predators and natural disasters, i know that my fish are safe from these
as for commercially bred stock, atleast i have the satisfaction of knowing that the fish i buy i can provide them with what 95% (at a guess) of the other people cant which would be a good and caring home
this is a hobby of responsibility, the lives of creatures are in your hands and depend soley on you for their survival
but on the other hand, if they were left in the wild they would be prone to dangers such as predators and natural disasters, i know that my fish are safe from these
as for commercially bred stock, atleast i have the satisfaction of knowing that the fish i buy i can provide them with what 95% (at a guess) of the other people cant which would be a good and caring home
this is a hobby of responsibility, the lives of creatures are in your hands and depend soley on you for their survival
Phycha said:
Good point. And the reality is as you say. Nobody can keep a perfect enviroment for they fish, not including tank size there is no filter commercialy available that can come close to keeping water quality as good as nature. I have no comeback to your last sentence b/c it is so true. But I do believe there is a difference between we as aquarists compared to your average person who dosn't care if the fish dies or they care but do not have the knowledge to keep their fish alive and healthy. The reason being , we are willing to learn about how to keep fish healthy. Then there is this argument, some people believe that some fish will actually live longer in an aquarium living a stress free ,healthy and predetor free life. In some cases this could well be true so in actual fact this could be seen as doing the fish a favour, unfortunatly we will never know(fish cant speak). I will not ever presume to say that my way of thinking is correct I was just hoping put another perspective on this topic. Btw it wasnt my intention say you(Phycha) were mistreating animals it was more of a general statement. My appologies.
P.S. I do not consider my self an expert :thud:
