Newbies: Starting a tank? Plants actually help!

I agree that plants are a great way to help with the water in your tank. I do have to disagree that they are difficult to take care of. I put plants in my tank with absolutely no knowledge about them, back when i had my 10 gallon. I also bought a flora-glo bulb for my hood. They are still healthy, and probably happier since i moved up to my 55 gallon. Oh yeah, substrate helps a lot too.
 
coffeegurlo--give us more about your tan--when it was setup, what's in it, how big it is, your maintenance routine, filters, etc. High ammonia is very bad--likely means it's a new tank.
 
abnscout82,
You're quite right--keeping plants in the tank doesn't have to be complicated. With minimum lighting (9 watts compact fluorescent in a 3 gallon tank) & a monthly dose of fertilizer, I have kept anacharis & vals easily, the only work required being to prune away the heavy plant growth!
I think the secret is to pick easy-care, fast-growing, low-light plants to start.

coffeegurlo,
Is your tank new? It's common to have high ammonia with no nitrite/nitrates in the early stages of a tank's 'cycle'.

It's interesting to witness the effect of plants on a new tank. I started my tank about 5 weeks ago, & am still getting barely-registering ammonia readings...I have NEVER had ammonia spikes, & my nitrites are 0 (haven't tested nitrates).
I have no idea where this tank stands in the cycling process, since I'm still getting ammonia, but 0 nitrites. Perhaps a planted tank never really "cycles"????
 
I agree that plants are a great way to help with the water in your tank. I do have to disagree that they are difficult to take care of. I put plants in my tank with absolutely no knowledge about them, back when i had my 10 gallon. I also bought a flora-glo bulb for my hood. They are still healthy, and probably happier since i moved up to my 55 gallon. Oh yeah, substrate helps a lot too.
Click to expand...
You're quite right--keeping plants in the tank doesn't have to be complicated. With minimum lighting (9 watts compact fluorescent in a 3 gallon tank) & a monthly dose of fertilizer, I have kept anacharis & vals easily, the only work required being to prune away the heavy plant growth!
Click to expand...

Lets think about what is being said here folks. We have a situation of 3 wpg Cf lighting in a tank, and one of the fastest growing nutrient hogs in the hobby. 3wpg CF lighting is far from minimum, and higher than most out of the box tank hood combo's will give you. The next person to read this thread may not happen into a situation this lucky and without some basic knowledge they could easily set themselves up for disaster.

Lets say they read that plants are great for a cycle so they go buy some annubias and a couple of swords and some anachris for their 20 g with one 18" (15 watt) NO florescent bulb or worse yet an incandescent hood. The sword leaves begin to wilt almost immediatly because the plant they bought was grown immersed and will have to develope new submerse growth leaves, the anachris only grows well when floating under the light because it requires some significant light, and the annubias start dieing off within a week because there isn't enough iron or pottassium to support them. We now have a new in-experienced plant keeper with a tank full of fish and decaying plant matter wondering why their fish are dead.

It is not a bad thing to cycle with plants, it definately is not a bad thing to happen into an easy maintenance ideal situation with a planted tank. Plants can be reasonably simple and or very complicated depending on what you plan to use them for, what type of plants, etc.
A blanket statement without information about the entire situation is a dangerous thing especially for in-experienced hobbyists. Very few out of the box tank and hood combo's come with high light levels. A 3 gallon tank can't help but have a decent light level. no one makes a 1.5 watt CF bulb. A ten with the same bulb is a problem. and most manufactured hoods are pretty low in the Watts per gallon range. Additionally when we use plants to cycle the tank we are demanding that they uptake the ammonia produced by the fish. Even if the plants survive and do well, they may not grow fast enough to uptake all of the ammonia. In the situation outlined here, we still have high ammonia levels despte the plants. Nitrogen (ammonia or nitrate) is one of three macro nutrients that plants require, aside from macro nutrients they require light and co2 and several micro nutrients. Sometimes people happen into an easy situation and a good balance of all needed nutrients. But it is dangerous to say that is always the case. Some one of those nitrients, light or carbon are limiting the plants ability to use all of the ammonia.
Outside of cycling, a person can go the trial and error route and learn about all of these items as needed, and if needed.
When used during cycling, the health of the fish is a concern and if anything goes amiss, and there is almost always a learning curve.

As said earlier, the bacteria still grows, and the nitrogen cycle still estabilishes. It will do so in about the same time (4-6 weeks), but you will have a much smaller colony due to the plants uptaking a good bit of your ammonia. My concern is that with readable levels of ammonia nitrItes will be produced at readable levels as well. Since plants don't uptake nitrite, they may build up in the tank while waiting for the bacteria colony to grow. It is possible in a new tank to never see an ammonia spike and then have nitrite levels climb very high. You will need to watch nitrite closely at all times. It usually climbs rapidly once it starts climbing.

Also you posted an ammonia reading of < 0.6 Depending on how much less than 0.6 you actually are, your fish will likely be affected. most folks reccomend nothing greater than 0.5 and that is really pushing things as far as potential gill damage goes. 0.25 mg/l ammonia is cause for concern in my mind when fish are in the tank

I am very glad things are going fairly well, I am glad you are learning and sharing what you are learning. All I'm trying to say ( for the benifit of others reading this) is that there is far more too this than the blanket statemnt that plants will help with the cycle. There are too many vairiables and considerations for that statement to stand alone.

Without all of the information, it's a shot in the dark and can be disasterous. Keep an eye on things, try to get the ammonia level down a bit and enjoy your tank.
dave
 
daveedka said:
Lets think about what is being said here folks. We have a situation of 3 wpg Cf lighting in a tank, and one of the fastest growing nutrient hogs in the hobby. 3wpg CF lighting is far from minimum, and higher than most out of the box tank hood combo's will give you. The next person to read this thread may not happen into a situation this lucky and without some basic knowledge they could easily set themselves up for disaster.

Lets say they read that plants are great for a cycle so they go buy some annubias and a couple of swords and some anachris for their 20 g with one 18" (15 watt) NO florescent bulb or worse yet an incandescent hood. The sword leaves begin to wilt almost immediatly because the plant they bought was grown immersed and will have to develope new submerse growth leaves, the anachris only grows well when floating under the light because it requires some significant light, and the annubias start dieing off within a week because there isn't enough iron or pottassium to support them. We now have a new in-experienced plant keeper with a tank full of fish and decaying plant matter wondering why their fish are dead.

It is not a bad thing to cycle with plants, it definately is not a bad thing to happen into an easy maintenance ideal situation with a planted tank. Plants can be reasonably simple and or very complicated depending on what you plan to use them for, what type of plants, etc.
A blanket statement without information about the entire situation is a dangerous thing especially for in-experienced hobbyists. Very few out of the box tank and hood combo's come with high light levels. A 3 gallon tank can't help but have a decent light level. no one makes a 1.5 watt CF bulb. A ten with the same bulb is a problem. and most manufactured hoods are pretty low in the Watts per gallon range. Additionally when we use plants to cycle the tank we are demanding that they uptake the ammonia produced by the fish. Even if the plants survive and do well, they may not grow fast enough to uptake all of the ammonia. In the situation outlined here, we still have high ammonia levels despte the plants. Nitrogen (ammonia or nitrate) is one of three macro nutrients that plants require, aside from macro nutrients they require light and co2 and several micro nutrients. Sometimes people happen into an easy situation and a good balance of all needed nutrients. But it is dangerous to say that is always the case. Some one of those nitrients, light or carbon are limiting the plants ability to use all of the ammonia.
Outside of cycling, a person can go the trial and error route and learn about all of these items as needed, and if needed.
When used during cycling, the health of the fish is a concern and if anything goes amiss, and there is almost always a learning curve.

As said earlier, the bacteria still grows, and the nitrogen cycle still estabilishes. It will do so in about the same time (4-6 weeks), but you will have a much smaller colony due to the plants uptaking a good bit of your ammonia. My concern is that with readable levels of ammonia nitrItes will be produced at readable levels as well. Since plants don't uptake nitrite, they may build up in the tank while waiting for the bacteria colony to grow. It is possible in a new tank to never see an ammonia spike and then have nitrite levels climb very high. You will need to watch nitrite closely at all times. It usually climbs rapidly once it starts climbing.

Also you posted an ammonia reading of < 0.6 Depending on how much less than 0.6 you actually are, your fish will likely be affected. most folks reccomend nothing greater than 0.5 and that is really pushing things as far as potential gill damage goes. 0.25 mg/l ammonia is cause for concern in my mind when fish are in the tank

I am very glad things are going fairly well, I am glad you are learning and sharing what you are learning. All I'm trying to say ( for the benifit of others reading this) is that there is far more too this than the blanket statemnt that plants will help with the cycle. There are too many vairiables and considerations for that statement to stand alone.

Without all of the information, it's a shot in the dark and can be disasterous. Keep an eye on things, try to get the ammonia level down a bit and enjoy your tank.
dave
Click to expand...

I have a 20gal tank with a 19Watt florescent bulb which is cycling with 2 corys and a Java Fern plant. Is this bad?
 
No--the plant is not being relied upon to process all the wastes in the system, and 20 gallons with 2 small cories is likely going to see very moderate ammonia spikes (which you can test and address via water changes).
 
I have a 20gal tank with a 19Watt florescent bulb which is cycling with 2 corys and a Java Fern plant. Is this bad?
Click to expand...
No--the plant is not being relied upon to process all the wastes in the system, and 20 gallons with 2 small cories is likely going to see very moderate ammonia spikes (which you can test and address via water changes).
Click to expand...

Og hit the point exactly (as usual) there is nothing wrong with having plants or adding plants during a fishy cycle, they just should not be relied upon. Water testing and waterchanges on a very regular basis (once daily minumum testing) are still needed to protect the fish.

Dave
 
I agree, some plants are more difficult to care for, but hopefully anyone deciding to buy a plant asks a couple of questions at their LFS. An analogy would be the different types of fish you can get for your aquarium. SOme are very high maintenence and delicate, then you have hardy fish. Always ask some questions when you go in to your LFS, but many plants are very easy to care for as well as a great way to start your tank. Most people new to the hobby DO NOT want to wait a couple of months to put fish in the tank. They want to fill it up and go buy some fish. Plants can aid in this, if a person is going to put fish in right away, there is not much we can say or do that will stop them. When I got my first 10 gallon, I put fish in the tank the very next day and they did well. I wish at the time I knew about what plants could do for the cycle. It will help the fish, and make it nicer for them.

One question: I have not priced them, that is why I am asking. The more difficult plants to care for: are they more expensive than your "garden variety" plants at your LFS?
 
Daveedka said: " We have a situation of 3 wpg Cf lighting in a tank...3wpg CF lighting is far from minimum...".

I remember asking the forum about my lighting situation, & was advised by several members that a 9 watt compact fluorescent is still considered low lighting, despite the fact that it fits the 3 watts-per-gallon rule. It is believed (by some) that the rule breaks down in smaller tanks. Are you suggesting that mine is a medium or high light tank? That would make a bit of a difference.

Also: "Lets say they read that plants are great for a cycle so they go buy some annubias and a couple of swords..."
I'm assuming that a newbie who reads about success with anacharis & vals would not then go out & buy annubias & swords, expecting the same results. I did research to determine which plants would likely work with my lighting setup, & I assume that others might do the same.

I enjoy learning from people's personal experience, and have noticed that there are differing approaches to keeping fish & plants, depending on who you ask. I'm sharing my very specific tank, fish, lighting info, so that people reading my post will understand that it is simply an observation specific to my situation (& therefore useful for similar conditions). I hope this comes across. :)

TANK SIZE: 3 gallon
LIGHTING: 9 watt compact fluorescent
PLANTS: 2 bunches of Anacharis, 1 bunch of valisneria (& growing!)
FERTILIZER: Nutrafin Iron-enriched Plant Gro, once every 3 weeks
FISH: 1 betta

almost 6 weeks after starting tank...

Ammonia level: still just barely registering (less than 0.6 mg/L)
Nitrite levels: 0
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom