!!Nitrates too high (too many fish?)!!

[Roan Art]

I agree with everything Roan said, and would also suggest cleaning out your canister filter. DO NOT USE chlorinated tap water to do this however as it will kill off your beneficial bacteria. If it hasn't been cleaned in a while detritus and mulm trapped in it will act as a nitrate factory. One more suggestion, switch to liquid nitrate test if your using stips. The nitrate test on the 5in1 strip is probably the most inacuarate test in the hobby

Oh, good point about the filter mooman.

Hurricanejedi,
I can't tell the difference after 40ppm either, but IMHO it doesn't matter. If it's up high enough that you can't tell one color from the next, it's just too high and the actual number doesn't really matter. Anything after 40ppm is Dangerville to me and an indication that something is wrong.

Just my 2 cents,
Roan

 

[hurricanejedi]

Thats true, glad to know! I'll test my nitrates tonight. During my cycle is when I noticed the crazy readings. Before I added my fish it was about 8ppm after my water change, as that is what my tap reading is. I'll eventually be fully planted so I'm not to worried about the nitrates in the tap. Sorry to borrow your thread!

 

[ChadNelson]

15 ppm!!

To all those who are still looking at this, I got my nitrates down to 15 ppm and I thought I'd give details in case anyone ever has it as bad as me!

I took back the Bala, Clown Loaches and Chinese Algea Eater (a little embarassing, I admit, but is was them, who in my naive early stage of not researching fish, said that those fish would be allright for my tank... :rant: ) I came home and gutted my tank. I have several fake plants and a few real ones, and removed the fake ones and rinsed them off. I took out my 5 big decorative rocks and when I lifted one of them (it was hollow) a HUGE amount of waste/dead, lost fish(could be, I lost a couple and was never able to find them) - it was just a huge cloud of nasty, fluffy white stuff. SO I got that out with my net right away. With everything now out of the tank I did a 20% water change, resituated everything in the tank, cleaned out both of my filters, and refilled the tank. I let it run for about 3 hours before I tested it and I'M DOWN TO 15 PPM! :dive:
For the record, I didn't change the water since my first post about this and this post, I just gave it a good, old fashioned cleaning. It took a long time, and was a pain in the butt, but altogether well worth the effort! Hopefully someone will read this and and can help them.

~Chad

 

[Peanutsweet]

The cleaning might have been a pain in the rear but if you do not keep it up regularly you will be right back where you were regardless of what kind or how many fish you have. There must be regular gravel cleanings going on especially, because that as you noticed is where all the gunk will accumulate.

 

[Roan Art]

Chad,

This is great, btw, although I wish you had taken the Boesemani back. They really are better in large schools.

Please start doing regular water changes of 50% per week. If you do not, you will end up back where you started even without the large bioload. There are a lot of things that accumulate in your tank water that you cannot see, such as dissolved solids and organic wastes (TDS, DOCs). The only way to remove them is via water changes. Think of it as an unset bowl of hot jello -- can you SEE the dissolved gelatine powder? No, you can't, but eventually the liquid will thicken and set. The more stuff that stays in your water, the "thicker" it gets. This makes it difficult for fish to adjust to changing water conditions; it hampers their osmoregulation -- their ability to change their bodies in response to pH, temperature, hardness etc.,. When that happens, they get sick very easily and their immune system is horribly compromised. Any new fish introduced to an environment such as this usually dies immediately. Your old fish will have gotten used to it, but eventually the water will be just too "thick", too much like swimming in setting jello, and they will start to die. One by one.

Eventually you have an empty tank.

This whole process is called "Old Tank Syndrom". RTR has written a series of articles on this and he explains things in greater detail. They are a great read:

OTS (Old Tank Syndrom)
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/small/ots.html

Waterchanges - How, Why
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/waterchange.html

Water Change Math for Source-Tank Mismatches
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/otswater.html

Water Change Math
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/waterchangemath.html

Hope this helps,
Roan

 

[nursie]

Chad..kudos for taking back the fish you did. Water changes are a pain, but necessary. Do you have a python to make them easier? I sure couldn't do without mine. they hook right up to your sink and suck the water out, and then you cah refill. Make gravel cleaning a snap too...just sucks up the crud and shoots it down the drain. If the 25 ft length not enough, you can get extensions.

 

[ChadNelson]

Stubborn

I'll be the first to admit, Roan, I'm stubborn, and I can't let go of the Boseman's Rainbowfish. You say that they work better in schools, but the two of them seem to be interacting okay with themselves and everyone else, so I don't see the harm.

HOWEVER. If I DID give in and kick the rainbowfish, what fish, if any, would you (or anyone) suggest I could safely put in the tank. First post has fish, minus the CAE, Clowns and Bala.

BTW, I'm all over the water changes, don't even worry about that. Still extemely embarassed it got that bad to begin with

~Chad

Just saw your post, Nursie, and I've seen the python in my LFS, but have my doubts. I've decided against RO water, now knowing where the real problem lies, and I know that the nitrate/nitrite/ammonia/chlorine/chloramine removers work instantly, but I'm still nervous about putting water straight from the sink and into the tank, so I might as well use the old bucket method. Python would be nice for the sucking action, though...

 

[Roan Art]

I'll be the first to admit, Roan, I'm stubborn, and I can't let go of the Boseman's Rainbowfish. You say that they work better in schools, but the two of them seem to be interacting okay with themselves and everyone else, so I don't see the harm.

They are like any other schooling fish, they are better in groups of six or more. Dunno what it is, but people don't think twice about the necessity of keeping neon tetras and the like in large groups, but the big schoolers get the shaft Not pointing fingers at you, Chad! No way, just in general. I think it's the desire to have the fish versus the amount of tank space they take.

HOWEVER. If I DID give in and kick the rainbowfish, what fish, if any, would you (or anyone) suggest I could safely put in the tank. First post has fish, minus the CAE, Clowns and Bala.

Aha! How about a smaller rainbowfish? See, Boeseman's get to 3.5-5". Mine are 3.5" already and they're about a year old. I've had them for 5 months. They grow really slowly, so it'll take a while for them to get to 5" but they *will* get there if they live at least 5 years.

How about a praecox? They call them "Dwarf Neons" but they are only "dwarf" as far as rainbowfish go. They *max* about 3", but it will take them a while to get there. I've had 5 3" Boes in a 36 and it was only slightly crowded. I think you could do 6 praecox in a 45g, but you'll have to think about returning some of the other schooling fish you have in there or you will be back to square one. Neons are *very* pretty rainbowfish.

BTW, I'm all over the water changes, don't even worry about that. Still extemely embarassed it got that bad to begin with

Good, but don't be embarassed. You guys don't even know half the mistakes I made when I started -- or still make!*whistles innocently*

Roan

PS: the Python

I have mucho $$$ tied up in rainbowfish. They are *expensive* bought from a breeder and except for the Boesmani, none of my bows are available in an LFS** -- there's no way I would jeopardize all that money to save myself some work. I use a Python on ALL my tanks. If I didn't think it was safe, I sure as heck wouldn't risk my bows using it.


** there are exceptions. I know of at least one LFS on the west coast who got some very rare bows from a hobbiest breeding them, but that's an exception.