Nitrogen Cycle, Nitrates, Bacteria

[sumtnfishy]

I would like to understand a few things in greater detail.
So I understand the Nitrogen Cycle however can someone please go into a little more scientific detail on how you can have readings on all three at the same time? Ex) .25 ammonia, .20 nitrites, and 20 Nitrates
I have a hard time understanding this. So it makes sense to me that you would be getting a reading on one at a time as the cycle moves through each of the 3 stages, but to have readings on more than one at a time? I have never ever run into that with my tanks.

I have heard that can cause you and established tank to cycle by doing a 50%+ water change I have never quite understood that if the tank is already established. Anymore info on that?

Nitrates - I have read that nitrates are a by product of too much bacteria caused organically. Now I assume this is different than the "good" bacteria in the tank? Is that correct? Lastly - Can you have too much "Good Bacteria"? Meaning added Good Bacteria such and Seachem Stability and Seachem Pristine (or other products similar)?

Sorry for the length but thank you in advance for your time to enlighten me

 

[Tifftastic]

So, the amount of ammonia converted to nitrite depends on the amount of nitrosomonas (they complete this first step). One individual can only convert so much in a space of time and you multiply that by the size of the colony. So, if your amount of fish produce waste greater than the ability of your colony to convert, you'll have a nitrite reading but an ammonia level that is still detectable. The second step is nitrobacter and the same goes for them: don't have enough and the process will be slowed leaving you with readable nitrate and nitrite at the same time. Eventually your colony will grow to accommodate the bioload as long as there is enough space for them. The growth of the colony has two limiting factors, surface area and food supply. With an excess of one they will grow to fill the other. If you have a lot of fish but not enough surface area the colonies will never get large enough to keep ammonia and nitrites at zero.

A large water change should not trigger a cycle. You can trigger a mini cycle by "over cleaning" though. This would be things like gravel vacuuming and throwing out all your filter media. If you do both at the same time you'll trigger a full cycle, do too much of one and you'll trigger a mini cycle. Your bacteria doesn't live free floating in the water column but on porous surfaces. However, if you changed a large amount of water with water that drastically changed the temperature of the water, you'd kill off some of the bacteria (but also stress your fish).

Nitrates are caused by the break down of organic material (fish food, fish poop, plants anything that was once living) by bacteria producing ammonia and the going through the nitrification process (the process described in paragraph one). So, yes and no. Nitrates can only be removed by water changes and are only produced through the breakdown of organic waste (along with straight ammonia produced from urine and respiration), but. . . It's not due to too much bacteria. It's due to too much organic waste (as urine and and biproducts of respiration arent usually THAT large).

If you have too much bacteria it will die, as it is limited by surface area and food. If it is short on one of those things it wont survive. As it was once a living organism, this can cause an ammonia spike. The size of which depends on how much bacteria you have die. So yes, you can have too much but only for a short time until it dies.

(I'd like to apologise ahead of time for any spelling errors as I'm on my phone and it's a pain to reply with)

 

[sumtnfishy]

So, the amount of ammonia converted to nitrite depends on the amount of nitrosomonas (they complete this first step). One individual can only convert so much in a space of time and you multiply that by the size of the colony. So, if your amount of fish produce waste greater than the ability of your colony to convert, you'll have a nitrite reading but an ammonia level that is still detectable. The second step is nitrobacter and the same goes for them: don't have enough and the process will be slowed leaving you with readable nitrate and nitrite at the same time. Eventually your colony will grow to accommodate the bioload as long as there is enough space for them. The growth of the colony has two limiting factors, surface area and food supply. With an excess of one they will grow to fill the other. If you have a lot of fish but not enough surface area the colonies will never get large enough to keep ammonia and nitrites at zero.

A large water change should not trigger a cycle. You can trigger a mini cycle by "over cleaning" though. This would be things like gravel vacuuming and throwing out all your filter media. If you do both at the same time you'll trigger a full cycle, do too much of one and you'll trigger a mini cycle. Your bacteria doesn't live free floating in the water column but on porous surfaces. However, if you changed a large amount of water with water that drastically changed the temperature of the water, you'd kill off some of the bacteria (but also stress your fish).

Nitrates are caused by the break down of organic material (fish food, fish poop, plants anything that was once living) by bacteria producing ammonia and the going through the nitrification process (the process described in paragraph one). So, yes and no. Nitrates can only be removed by water changes and are only produced through the breakdown of organic waste (along with straight ammonia produced from urine and respiration), but. . . It's not due to too much bacteria. It's due to too much organic waste (as urine and and biproducts of respiration arent usually THAT large).

If you have too much bacteria it will die, as it is limited by surface area and food. If it is short on one of those things it wont survive. As it was once a living organism, this can cause an ammonia spike. The size of which depends on how much bacteria you have die. So yes, you can have too much but only for a short time until it dies.

(I'd like to apologise ahead of time for any spelling errors as I'm on my phone and it's a pain to reply with)

This is so fantastic and you typed all of that on your phone!! Wow I don't have enough patience. Anyway I am thrilled to have read this and thank you for your time. I now have a full understanding and feel I can do even better on keeping my water pristine!
Take care

 

[Tifftastic]

This is so fantastic and you typed all of that on your phone!! Wow I don't have enough patience. Anyway I am thrilled to have read this and thank you for your time. I now have a full understanding and feel I can do even better on keeping my water pristine!
Take care

No problem! Glad to have helped

 

[FreshyFresh]

Amber, if you let a sample of your tap water sit overnight and measure it, what does it read in PPM for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

 

[fishorama]

The only addition to Tiff's awesome typing job is that both bacteria need oxygen too to work effectively. They will grow eventually but more slowly without water movement (filtration or airstone).

 

[sumtnfishy]

Amber, if you let a sample of your tap water sit overnight and measure it, what does it read in PPM for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Hello!
I do not currently have any issues with my water as of now. These questions are to understand further so that I can be educated more in depth if my water quality is less than pristine.

 

[Rbishop]

Knowledge of your tap is as important as that of your tank. Many tap sources change over time, even from season to season. I have known countless folks that experienced tank issues and never suspected their tap water as the source. I don't think it needs to be checked more routinely than monthly for the majority of folks.

Also, researching what your local community uses on a regular basis and if they do any periodic shocks with a different agent can save anguish.

 

[sumtnfishy]

Knowledge of your tap is as important as that of your tank. Many tap sources change over time, even from season to season. I have known countless folks that experienced tank issues and never suspected their tap water as the source. I don't think it needs to be checked more routinely than monthly for the majority of folks.

Also, researching what your local community uses on a regular basis and if they do any periodic shocks with a different agent can save anguish.

I should have said Yes I have tested my tap water but you make excellent points about doing it more periodically. Good suggestions and very helpful. Thanks!