Non Co2 Tanks

M

MissMinerva

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Nov 9, 2004
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Can someone give me some info on low light, non Co2 tanks maintenance? I have a 55 gal. moderately planted tank with 2 40w Super Daylight t-8 bulbs. It's been running about 3 months with this lighting. Before that it was about 3 months with 2 20w t-12 bulbs. I have been adding more plants in the last couple of months. I'm using 2 Penguin 330 filters.

I don't know if my fish load is considered light, moderate or what. I have 1 Opaline Gourami, 1 Tiger Barb, 5 Cherry Barbs, 4 Black Phantom Tetras, 1 Serpae, 4 Otos, 1 False SAE and 7 Cories.

When I tested params today I got 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates. How bad is it to have 0 Nitrates? I read something from Tom Barr saying that with a non Co2 tank you don't need to do water changes, just top off the tank. Would this be correct for my tank?

Am I over filtering? Underfeeding? Am I going to have an algae problem? Am I making any sense?

I would really appreciate any input!!

Thanks!
 
That is VERY low light for a 55 as they are quite deep.
I would consider your fish low quite light, and the top off system would work fine for it(but I would do a monthly water change just cause I know the fish would like it).
If your penguins are comparable to Aqua Clear 300s, I think your filtration is fine. I used AC 300s on the same tank for quite a while. Worked fine.
I personally didn't have much luck with plants in my original 55 until I installed a pair of 55 watt compact fluorescents over it, and I considered that low light. Previous to that I was limited to Java Fern, Anubia, and Cryptocoryne.

Len
 
My heavily planted 55 requires CO2 (or heavy Excel dosage) at 4 x 40W NO fluorescents, only light Excel dosage at 3 x 40W, but does not do very well at 2 x 40W. The fish stock is quite light.
 
Hi,

First, your tank isn't overstocked. Consider the old rule of one inch of fish body per gallon. Stocking levels are particularly important in low light, non CO2 tanks, because the fish are the machine that converts fish food to plant nutrients. (I assume that you aren't adding nutrients.)

If you add fish, keep in mind that some fish do better in schools and make a better display that way. Your tiger barbs and serpae would benefit from having schoolmates.

As far as plants are concerned, to grow them you need three primary things: light, carbon, and nutrients like nitrogen, potassium, phosphorous, and trace elements. The light that you have is marginal at best. You should aim for at least two watts per gallon.

Some carbon in the form of CO2 comes from the atmosphere and some from the fish. Some folks inject additional CO2 or add carbon in the form of Seachem's Excel. Others use a soil substrate which supplies some carbon.
In a low light tank, carbon is usually the factor that limits growth. Plants can grow adequately without any supplemental carbon.

The NO3 level of zero is worrisome. Plants need NO3 to live; if there isn't enough algae will make use of what there is, particularly if the light is increased. (Be sure the test kit is accurate.)

So, in summary: Get more fish, increase your lighting to around two watts per gallon, and, if the NO3 doesn't start to build up, consider adding it.

Good luck.

Bill
 
Thanks for all the advice. Well, the No3 is up to a whopping 5ppm tonight. I know the lighting isn't that high but, when I switched to 80 watts I started getting algae for the first time. I found this awesome shop light that directs ALL the light straight down. The ends are closed so no light escapes there either. So, I'm wondering since they are t8 bulbs if they aren't actually giving off more light than t12 bulbs? That's what I read anyway.

Before I changed lights and got algae, I was using Flourish on a rather inconsistent basis. I haven't dared use any since I got rid of the algae. I had to shorten the light time also. I would like to use Excel. Would that cause an algae problem?

I have dwarf & giant hygro, Echinodorus parviflorus "Tropica", vals, anacharis, crypts and mosses growing. I even have a couple riccia rocks! Not the fastest growing things but, they definitely are growing. I am getting some brown spots on the swords, though. Otherwise, everything is growing real well.

I don't have the concentration or the $$ to get into dosing different types of ferts all the time. Which is why I would like to keep this as simple as possible.

But, the idea of getting more fish sounds awfully nice! What would be the maximum amount of tiger barbs I could add? I tried just having 3 once. It was most nervewracking! But, if I could safely add 4 or 5 more that would be nice.

Again thanks for all the help. More comments are welcome. As you can see, I really need it!

Jan
 
Hello, again,

You could have a school to 5 or 6 tiger barbs without any problem. And, when they are kept in schools, they tend to bother other fish less, looking over their shoulders, as it were.

If your tank is not fully planted, fill it with more fast growers, like hygro. They will consume whatever extra nutrients might turn up, reducing the chance of algae.

The filter should be adjusted so that it disturbs the surface as little as possible. That will help to preserve whatever CO2 you have.

Low light aquariums require fewer water changes than higher intensity setups, but keep in mind that water evaporates but minerals don't. "Tipping off" the tank to replace evaporated water will lead to very hard water, eventually. You might consider getting a hardness test kit. They are inexpensive. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes a good one for under $10.
(I suspect that you misinterpreted what Tom Barr said.)

Finally, Diana Walstad has written a great book about lower light aquariums, "Ecology of Planted Aquariums." It is available at Amazon and elsewhere. A great book, in my opinion.

Good luck!

Bill
 
Thanks for the extra info, Bill. Do you thing 2 Penguin 330's is too much? I have them as low as they can go. I keep trying to figure out a way to attach something to them so the water comes out more across the top of the water. Haven't come up with anything yet. :-)

What do you think about adding Flourish?

I think I will go with more tiger barbs. I just love them anyway. I will try to get Diana's book, too.

Thanks again,

Jan
 
If you aren't injecting CO2 don't worry about the surface agitation from your filters. I'm pretty sure they will help by bringing CO2 into the water through the same agitation that brings oxygen.

If you were injecting CO2 you could probably find a way to put sponges over the water return flow. Many people do this to reduce surface agitation but in your case it's not needed.
 
Hi, Jan,

In a planted aquarium the plants do the filtering. Mulm buildups are siphoned out but not often. It disappears among the plants and provides some benefits. Having said that, I run filters in my tanks to get water circulation, and since the water is moving through there antway, I figure a little filter floss won't hurt anything, so . . .

I'm not familiar with Penguin 300's. I use Aquaclear hang ons, usually the smallest size I can find. The idea is to minimize surface movement, since that is where the gas exchange occurs.

I agree with Captain that filtering with a lot of surface disturbance will tend to keep the tank at the atmosphoric level of CO2, and that is not as significant as when CO2 in infected. However, in a low light, planted tank the biological processes therein also add a little CO2, and that would be lost.

Flourish adds trace elements. Most water supplies seem to have enough.

Good luck!

Bill
 
aquabillpers I wish surface disturbance keep the tank at the "atmosphoric level of CO2". There is a much higher concentration in the air around us than there is in the water. Even with normal levels of CO2 injection in the water (20-30 ppm) it is not even close to the level in the air.

"300 (0.03% vol.) ppm. Nothing happens, normal concentration in air"

http://www.indsci.com/sup_gi_tox_co2.asp
 
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