OERUGF for the planted tank?

RTR the stand that my 29gal planted rugf is on has a see thru bottom and I can see the roots of my plants in good size clumps under the plate. And it has only been set up about a 10 months, granted I only have about 20% of the gravel bed that I can currently get to, but I do vacuum it and the plants weekly and do a 50% water change at the same time. This much growth under the ug plate is what I am trying to curtail a little. I am going off of my tank that I have currently and what I know it is doing with my water and the stuff I put in it.
 
ghinksmon- Fishless cycling burns up KH (normal nitrification uses KH, fishless operates at levels comparable to an overstocked and overfed novice tank). In moderately hard and higher KH water there should be no problems. But if no inoculum is used (common) and the KH is marginal (<4-5 degrees), then the nitrification occuring even in the first (ammonia -> nitrite) stage of cycling may be sufficient to destroy the water's natural buffering, which allows the pH to fall or crash below optimum growth levels or at worst even survival levels for the bacteria. During fishless cycling folks should be aware of, and monitor their pH and KH. Should these start dropping, water changes or KH supplement should be provided (carefully).

We should have caught that and warned against it. That is the basic issue with lack of peer review and/or releasing proceedures before full trials have been completed. What you don't know can hurt you.

Dragon Queen - I never more than surface vac any planted tank routinely, only gravel vac when moving/thinning plants (my rule of thumb is the whole tank within 2-3 years with conventional substrate planting, about twice that with RFUG - so much less). I don't worry about growth under the plate, it harms nothing IME. I have not to date had any plate clog.
 
I don't worry about growth under the plate, it harms nothing IME. I have not to date had any plate clog.
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Even when the roots have nearly filled the space under the plate? Currently I have about a quarter filled and the tank was rearranged about 6-7 months ago. Do the roots have enough flow thru to not impede flow even when the plate is full? Thanks.
 
Bacopa carolina, Egeria densa, Java fern, Cryptocoryne wendetii 'Bronze', Cryptocoryne lutea, Banana plant, Eleocharis acicularis
So far it is the Cryptocornes and the Bacopa that really have roots under the plate. There is only about a quarter of the space below that have roots, not packed, but not just fuzz. There is about 2 1/2 to 3 in of gravel above the ug plate maybe more I haven't measured.
 
My densest area of root mass under the plates is with my Crypts. The lrgest roots tend to be annubias and vals though.

Even in my densest areas on my lowest flow set-up (12x tank turnover) I do not yet have any plugging issues. I have a couple of spots where roots and the mulm they either collectd or produced looks pretty thick, but a flashlight reveals that there is still plenty of room for flow in those areas. Additionally the "mulm' that I do see tends to move around somewhat. I mark the bottom of the tank with a grease pencil so I can track buid-up and movement, and as of yet no place has had any continual visible build-up.

In my higher flow set-ups(26-20x tank turnover) I have no buid-up whatsoever at any time even with thick root mass in places. The higher turnover tanks also house snails which tends to create finer better processed mulm. I do not know how much of the total equation is the snails and how much is truly the flow but I at least suspect Flow is the primary difference in the results.

Either way I have fond no need or reson to move my plants routinely. The filter and the plants seem to take care of themselves well.
Dave
 
Do I need more gravel or is this a factor in the ug plate. There are 2 Penguin 660's in the 29gal for about 11x turnover + the canister. My 20h is going to have a Pen 1140 for 15x turnover + a HOB rated for a 50gal not sure what the flow rating as its downstairs. Also some how I have gotten some gravel under the plate of the 29gal not sure where it has come from.
 
Your gravel should be sufficient. My 29 is about 3", but that is not likely a significant difference. The Crypts and Vals definitely send roots down just as far as they can, but have not caused any issues. I don't do much with stem plants, so cannot give any experienced-based help there. My present experience is that to date the Swords and Crinums have not caused any problems, but they were not put into any RFUG planted tanks as early as the smaller plants, so for me the verdict there is still pending. I do have both in a tank where I can see the bottom glass (rare for me) to monitor. Old swords I worry about in conventional substrates as their root mass is exactly that - massive - so it will take some years before I make a call there. The Crinums have very far-reaching roots (4-foot footprint? The roots will match the leaves, say 6' at least, but are not compacted), but their root growth I suspect will be an issue. Apons have not been an issue either, but I need to test some which lack dormancy - a potentially different situation.

ghinksmon - you are welcome. That is one topic on which I feel guilt, as I offered valid but incomplete info originally.
 
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