Oh' it's that new guy with the very long post!

[cgray]

What's up everybody!?

My name is Chris, and I'm about to buy a new hobby and I don't know anything about it!!!! I've been reading alot of your archived pages, trying to absorb all this info but I can't understand it. Problem is I don't even know the basics, like what is needed to start up an aquarium (FW or SW). Which is easier between the two to start up AND maintain. Hell, I didn't even know what "cycling" was until I read that it (and patience) is the number one step people would of done better or different their first time around.

Let me tell you alittle about myself without getting too personal. I've never had a fish in my life until my daughter asked me to get some. So we got acouple Betas (2) and two little bowls for them. You know the one with the plants growing out the top. After about 3-4 years they died and she was heart-broken over them, so now she wants some more and I want to do it right! She's 6yrs. old by the way.

So I started reading and researching and found out that, against popular belief, a bigger aquarium is better to start out with then a smaller one. Well on that I'm about to buy a 135gal. used aquarium with all the parts and supplies. While talking with the guy I come to find out that I don't know what to ask and even if I did, I wouldn't know if the answer was good or not.

And so, am lost. Can someone point me in the right direction?

All I know this guy has is:
- 135G aquarium - dimensions are about 5-6' X 2' X 1.5'
- Penguin 300 - I looked this up and it seems good, it moves something like 300GPH
- 200lbs of little gravel that's all shaped like minature sea shells
- A Hood with two big long lights
- Some little buildings (castles and other decorations)
- And couple other little black box knick-knacks that plug into things
I really have no clue, he says the one black box things makes bubbles and stuff and the other thing pushes water around or something....God I sound dumb! :thud:

I figured while I trolled around the site reading more I would post this terrible long and drawn out thread and maybe get some more info to look up.

BTW I like the sound of the fishless cycling, less fish death = no tears from a 6yr old!!!

Thanx,
Cgray

 

[Blinky]

NOW who's writing long posts?

Hi there, welcome to the greatest hobby on Earth!
First, I want to congratulate you on being such a great example to your daughter. You're teaching her to do research before diving into something new, and how to look after fish responsibly
I can offer some help with a few things. The Penguin 300 is probably okay, but I'd get another - it's better to over filter than under filter. One at each end of the tank will give you good filtration and the peace of mind to know that if one ever breaks you've got a backup.
The thing that 'moves the water around' is probably a powerhead - basically a motor with a spout that you can direct, that can be used for a lot of things. You can use it just to create current, or there are filter attachments that attach to powerheads that can be used to 'polish' the water. It can also be used to operate an undergravel filter - too big a topic to even get into!
The gravel that comes with the tank is something you might want to replace - it sounds like it's calcium based, and that will make your water harder and raise the pH. The calcium that leaches from the substrate material will keep the pH too high for many species, However it IS desirable if you're getting fish that like a high pH (like African cichlids) or starting a SW tank, so look into what wet pets you're going to house before you decide whether or not to use that gravel.
You're going to need at least one, preferably two, thermostatically controlled heaters to keep the water temperature stable and warm enough - pretty much essential IMO.
The 'thing that makes bubbles' is probably an air pump - it stays outside the tank, and small tubing carries the air it pumps to an airstone inside the tank which diffuses the air into a lot of bubbles. With Penguins, you'll be creating enough surface agitation for oxygen exchange, so the bubbles are pretty much an aesthetic thing - if you think they're pretty, go for it, if you find them annoying, don't bother
There are a lot of great books out there, I recommend a visit to a good aquarium store to look for a good beginner's book - it will detail all the steps of how to prepare the tank, set it up properly, hook up all the equipment and, most important, should lay out everything you'll need to do to maintain your tank once it's up and running. Many books have sections on fish diseases, plants, water chemistry and more - one good book can answer a LOT of questions and if you're anything like me you'll refer back to the books you buy for years to come.
One small note: make sure when you set up the tank that it's on a proper stand (you cannot believe the stories I've heard about people putting huge tanks on old coffee tables...), that it's absolutely dead level, and that it rests on a sheet of polystyrene, cork, or something similar to prevent any unevenness on the tank's bottom, which can result in stress on the glass.
Hope that helps a bit. Everything's probably overwhelming right now, but pretty soon you'll be answering other people's questions and wondering why on Earth you waited so long to get your aquarium

 

[Leopardess]

Welcome!

You will want to start out with freshwater. Saltwater takes a bit more knowledge, a lot more money, and has less breathing room for things to go wrong. Good thing is, there are hundreds (literally) of beautiful freshwater fish out there to choose from.

First thing, you need to decide what kind of fish you want to keep. Do you want a community tank full of small, peaceful fish? Do you want cichlids? Do you want just a couple of really big fish like oscars?

Go to the pet store and see what fish you like. Write the names down and feel free to ask about them here (dont forget to look at online profiles as well!). We can help guide you as to what fish will get along together and which won't. Best piece of advice I can give you: Don't listen to anything a pet store employee says without first taking it with a bucket of salt They're trying to sell you stuff - and the majority don't have any clue what they are talking about.

Peaceful types of fish include the following but are not limited to:
rasboras
most tetras
some barbs
corydoras species
loaches
livebearers (but be prepared to have somewhere to hosue the fry if you get these guys and gals!)
gouramis
otocinclus
rainbowfish - which would look might awesome in such a big tank (boesmanis, goyder river, turquoise, dwarf neons...all beautiful)

It sounds like you might have already gotten the whole cycling thing down (fishless is THE way to go, btw!)....but let us know if you have any specific questions.

You'll want to keep the tank at a temp. of about 76-80F....so you'll need those heaters Blinky was talking about.

If you're anything like most people, after a time, you will want a more natural looking tank (ie, brown/black ish gravel) so you may want to just consider buying new gravel (and Blinky is right...it sounds like you have something that will alter your pH over time...not good!)

You will need the following test kits:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH

There are others, but that is really all you need to start. While I've got you here, don't ever be tempted to add those pH up and pH down chemicals that come with the kit. Throw them out to avoid temptation! It is best not to mess with your pH. A stable pH is far more important than some arbitrary value. I suggest getting the pH kit and testing your tap water before you look at fish. You may have an high pH (sometimes that happens) and cichlids generally love that kind of environment. Most fish are fine between 6.5 -8.2 ish.

You'll want to get a good quality flake food, some frozen food (such as bloodworms) and I assume you will get some bottom feeders if you go for a community type set up, and in that instance, you'd want some sinking shrimp pellets and/or algae wafers.

Once your tank is cycled and your fish are in. Monitor your nitrate levels. You generally want to keep them below about 40ppm, but below 20ppm is better. Do water changes as needed to accomodate this. (I do 50% weekly, sometimes biweekly in my planted tanks, but you gotta see what works for your fish and your schedule and bioload.)

You also need to buy a dechlorinator for your water. Get somtehing that says it also removes chloramines. Follow the instructions. I get the one by Aquarium pharmaceuticals (it is straight dechlor, no stress coat additives). Its cheap and works well, but there are others.

If you dont mind spendin the extra 5-10$, you might want to buy a timer to put the tank lights on. That way, you don't have to worry about turning them on and off, and the fish will be on a schedule. 8-12 hours on a day is fine.

Patience certainly is key

You might want to stock up on a fishy medical first aid type kit This would include an ich treatment, melafix, and antibiotic such as Maracyn Plus, internal parasite medicines and something for fungus. You don't need to get these right off the bat though. It is just nice to get htem so that they are on hand.

Since your tank is so large, it would be very expensive to treat the whole tank...especially when it is an isolated fish disease that doesn't really require that the whole tank be medicated. I would find/buy a 10g tank that you can set under your big tank in the stand. You would use this as a hospital tank. Treating 10g of water is much easier than treating 135g! Believe me, it will come in handy. You can also use it for quarantining new fish in the future.

Let's see...hmm I think I am done for now LOL.

Welcome aboard and I have to give you praise for doing things right and researchign before you buy! A lot of people don't ...and later wish they did! Good job! You're getting into a GREAT hobby. And you will probably suffer from MTS in the future - Multiple Tank Syndrome. It gets the majority of us!

 

[Aquatick]

First off, you're an awesome father. You don't see too many people really taking an interest in the things that interest their children. I was roughly the same age as your daughter when I got my first aquarium. It was unbelievable to me and I learned a lot from it. Obviously the aquarium bug stuck with me.

At any rate, lets get to the important stuff! Bigger tanks are easier, but I really recommend that you stay away from a tank that big. Heck, I wouldn't even touch a used tank myself. The truth is you may be buying into more trouble than it's worth. You can probably buy a good sized tank with new and proper filtration for less than you are paying. In all honesty it would be MUCH easier for us to help you put a new setup together than a used one. A Penguin 300 is not going to be nearly enough filtration for a tank that size!!!

If I were you (Depending on my budget) I would get something between 29gal to 55gal to start with. Do you have a budget? If so, how much? I can definitely help you save money with the knowledge I have learned along the way as can most everyone here. I really want to help you AND your daughter enjoy this experience together. If you have AOL instant messenger I can be reached at Lizardslikepepsi or you can contact me on MSN messenger at thevoice@hotmail.com I would be more than happy to take the time to answer any questions you have. 20+ years experience in both the retail and wholesale sides of the industry and I'm happy to pass the knowledge on and offer my advise.

 

[JSchmidt]

I personally think a big tank is fine, particularly if you don't go nuts and stock it heavily. A large tank, with a modest fish load, can be very low maintenance. If you stock the tank lightly, any problems that develop will happen slowly, giving you plenty of time to notice a problem and correct it before the tank crashes.

I've set up tanks for my kids (ages 5, 5 and 9), too, and it's a great opportunity to teach them about caring for other creatures. I've found that, rather than getting a boatload of schooling fish, my kids are most interested in one or two main fish (e.g., an angel) and a small cast of supporting characters (a small school of tetras and a few cories, for example). I try (within broad limits) to keep fish that are from similar parts of the world and we talk about the environments in which fish live and how that relates to the fishes' size, diet, etc. They usually end up naming the centerpiece fish and they relate to it like any other pet. I've found when they develop that sort of a relationship, they're much more likely to help with the feeding and maintenance than when we have a tankful of zebra danios that all look alike.

In a big tank like yours, I'd consider keeping a fish with some personality, like an oscar or a big kissing gourami (they start out small, but get really big; sometimes pet stores will have large ones that outgrew their owner's tank).

This a great hobby to do with your kids; good luck and have fun!

Jim

 

[TKOS]

Look for filtration on a modestly stocked tank to be 5-6 times turn over rate per hour. SO for a 135 gallon tank 600 gph is a good idea. As was mentioned this can easily be acheived by adding an extra filter on the other end of the tank.

 

[Watcher74]

Actually on a recent poll left here most of the people who answered kept around 9x filtration turnover on their tank. The more the better.

I suggest that in addition to getting another Penguin 300 you get a small fully submersible power filter. Check these out:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/category.xml?pcid1=2885;category_id=1717

You can buy one online from Big Als much cheaper than from a store.

The reason for having one of these in your tank is this. If you get a 10 gallon tank to put in sick fish to treat, you can pull out the small, internal, power filter, that you keep in your main tank, and put it in the 10 gallon when you need it. It will have beneficial bacteria in it so your hospital tank doesn't try to cycle and harm the already sick fish.

Heaters:

Definetly two. Keep in mind you are going to need about 4-5 watts per gallon. So in a 135 that's around the 600 watts area. Get two 300 watt heaters and place them at opposite ends of the tank. It will provide better temperature conformity and also will be safer for your tank. Some heaters tend to stick in the on position and can cook your fish. With two, it will give you much more time to notice and fix the problem.

 

[cgray]

And to think I was going to get flamed!

Well, this is going better than I thought!!
Not that I was given a bad vibe when reading other threads just other forums dealing with cars, audio, home theater and whatever else I've been into will quickly flame you. Thanks ALL!!

First, with (2-3) filters, (2) 300 watt heaters, maybe that air pump and power header would it be wise to run a devoted breaker to just the aquarium? If so would you use any GFCI's, they can get alittle touchy around humid areas sometimes and I'd hate for the outlet to break while nobody was at home!

I understand the concept with the air pump now...will read more though.

Power header?? This aquarium does come with an undergravel filter but I didn't think it was hooked up.

Best thing is now I have a couple questions to ask....and "Aquatick" you are diffently right, so I got some papers (if bought) that if the tank leaks it goes back. That was the first item that got ironed out before I even looked at it....next was delivery.....that thing is HHUUGGEE!

What kind of gravel or bottom liner should I look into.

And with books, any of the "****" FOR Dummies good in this area?

Thanx,
cgray

P.S. This is coming to $300 dollars for all, that's why steps one and two were thought of!!

 

[cgray]

new info

Just spoke with him again and he has that Penguin filter and another one. What it sounds like and has sounded like is this guy got into fish on accident. His brother bought a house and it was there so he gave it to him for free. He also seems like the type that has to have the best, I think he did this because he didn't really know what he was doing but loved fish.

Back to what I was saying, when asked about another filter he said that the Penguin is the second. The first was something that, "it's the other just like it" when I said Emperor he said yeah?!?!? At one time he had about 100-150 fish and he could not keep the tank clean so he went out and bought the Penguin.

The bottom is what he says is Live Rock. He even went on to say that it's for saltwater and it costed him $200 for the load. The aquarium was used as a FW tank. What he did in the past was catch Perch from the river and put them in there and keep them for a few years, this is after he downsized the number of fish.

No heater cause he said the water would get as warm as the room so he seen no reason.

No thermometers for the same reason.

And the lights are 2 - 3' bulbs, all he remembers is they cost $140.

 

[Watcher74]

I don't know much about saltwater, but I seriously doubt "live rock" could survive freshwater. His live rock is most likely "dead rock". Too bad too, cause that stuff ain't cheap.

Even if you were keeping a coldwater tank you still need to have heaters in your tank. Rooms in a house flucuate usually quite a bit from day to night. The constant change in temperature will stress the fish and make them more prone to disease and infestation. Heaters keep a much more constant temperature in a tank.

[EDIT]
How much is he asking for this setup?
[/EDIT]