oh no fish with ick

[Roan Art]

The problem with table salt is that it might contain iodized and additives..If you run a search on the type of table salt to use for Ich it would say use salt that is non-iodized and contain no additives..And why use salt that was not made to be in an aquarium?

If you go to Wal-Mart, you can buy 16 oz of aquarium salt for $1.32..So I prefer to use aquarium salt since it is made for being in an aquarium..Is it a lot safer? I think so!

Aquarium salt is no different from un-iodonized table salt. The only difference is the price and the expensive one has a cute little fish doctor on it to take your money from you:

The Salt Myth, by RTR:
http://aquafacts.net/wiki/index.php/All_Salt_Was_Not_Created_Equal
The above addresses your concerns in regards to additives.


Daveedka's Ich Article is also on AquaFacts:
http://aquafacts.net/wiki/index.php/Ich

You need to continue using the salt with heat for a very minimum of 7 days after the last visible spot disappears from your fish, or you risk another outbreak.

HTH
Roan

 

[apratsunrthd]

That should be perfect.

 

[watermelon]

Aquarium salt is no different from un-iodonized table salt. The only difference is the price and the expensive one has a cute little fish doctor on it to take your money from you:

The Salt Myth, by RTR:
http://aquafacts.net/wiki/index.php/All_Salt_Was_Not_Created_Equal
The above addresses your concerns in regards to additives.


Daveedka's Ich Article is also on AquaFacts:
http://aquafacts.net/wiki/index.php/Ich

You need to continue using the salt with heat for a very minimum of 7 days after the last visible spot disappears from your fish, or you risk another outbreak.

HTH
Roan

Why do you want to argue with a Koi vet, Dr. Johnson when at his site, it states use non iodonized salt or aquarium salt..I dont know much about what type of table salt they have in the supermaket so I just go for aquarium salt..If you want to use any type of table salt, that is fine with me but I would not do it!

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=22&category=17&name=

 

[Roan Art]

Why do you want to argue with a Koi vet, Dr. Johnson when at his site, it states use non iodonized salt or aquarium salt..I dont know much about what type of table salt they have in the supermaket so I just go for aquarium salt..If you want to use any type of table salt, that is fine with me but I would not do it!

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=22&category=17&name=

Just because someone has a few initials after their name that does not make him or her infalible, does it? He's a koi "expert" -- we'll stretch that to fish in general to give him the benefit of the doubt -- but does that mean he's also a water chemistry expert? Organic chemist? Tropical fish expert?

Dr Gerald Allen is an acknowledged fish expert, but he has written some pretty poor books on aquarium plants. Why not? He's not a plant expert.

I'm not deriding either of the above, I'm just stating that someone who is an acknowledged expert on one type of fish does not automatically make them an expert on others.

Now, I've read Dr. Johnson's article and a few others he's written. They are great stuff, but they really are geared towards koi and goldfish.

In regards to his ich treatment: the list he's given of fish that can be sensitive to salt is rather misleading. His instructions are for koi and other coldwater fishes, not tropical. To explain:

1. Recommendation of SG 1.002 from Daveedka, not 1.003 as by the koi vet. Ich will die with 2 teaspoons per gallon. IMO 3 teaspoons is overkill.

2. None of the fish on his "senstive" list will have problems with salt levels of SG 1.002, unless they are already in a bad way. The fish he has listed are "soft water" low TDS fish. Increasing the salt to 3 teaspoons per gallon as he recommends will increase the TDS of the water and stress those fish. This will also adversely affect their ability to osmoregulate. It's not surprising that he doesn't recommend using his method to treat those fish.

3. A temperature of 80* is the normal ich recommendation for cold water fishes such as koi and goldfish. Tropicals are, on average, kept around 80* normally and can thus go much higher than that.

4. An SG of 1.002 for the time it takes to treat for ich will not harm plants at all. There is no need to remove them from the tank.

5. I prefer to recommend that treatment be continued for 7 days after the last visible spot disappears rather than a specific number of days. This will help prevent undertreatment and a reoccurence of the parasite.

The rest of his article is excellent. Aeration is a must, especially for O2 intensive fish such as koi, goldfish, rainbowfish and others. Partials to remove the salt, absolutely. His dosing regime for the salt is great as well.

I reiterate, it's a great article and I have a lot of respect for the Koi Vet, but it is definitely geared towards cold water fishes.

When it comes to tropicals and aquarium fish types that we keep, I'd rather go with RTR and Daveedka's advice. It's tried and true for tropicals.

HTH

Roan

 

[Ghostshrimp55]

That is his instructions (Eric Johnson) and I stand by it..I been using his method all the time and I never saw any bad reaction to any of my fishes....The salt dosage you mentioned is too low and I think it would not cure Ich.. Yes, it says that on the side of the carton for dosage but that is not for curing diseases like Ich. And if you look at the link the other person posted above, it would say 3 tsp per gallon is the max for salt treatment..I remember that link and I read it before since it was a sticky here in aquariacentral..But yea, whatever, I am here not to argue or anything..

That's all fine and good but, if you go back and reread my post, I said that I "had" ich in my tank and I treated it with 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, as per the instructions on the side of the salt container. I no longer have ich. But, hey, whatever. I guess results don't actually mean anything anymore. Go ahead and dose your tank with 3 teaspoons per gallon. It's way more than you need but it'll work.

I'd also like to include this link: http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/whitespot.htm

It gives details about ich and its treatment. It recommends 1-2 grams per liter of salt. There 3.79 liters per gallon and one rounded tablespoon of aquarium salt is approximately 27 grams. There are 18.95 liters in 5 gallons of water. 27grams of salt/18.95 liters amounts to 1.42 grams of salt/liter of water....that's within the recommended levels of salt for treatment of ich. This concentration is going to be lower than what you actually wind up putting in your tank because you probably aren't accounting for the true water volume after rocks/gravel/decor have been added. So, in the end, you're putting closer to 2 grams/liter of salt in your water.

Again, I'd just like to say that I "had" ich. I treated it this way and it went away. Normally I would just be silent and let you dispense whatever advice you want but I did something that clearly worked and you're telling me I'm wrong.......? Treat it however you may want but, just so you know, what you and oters are calling too low a dose actually does work.

 

[Roan Art]

That's all fine and good but, if you go back and reread my post, I said that I "had" ich in my tank and I treated it with 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, as per the instructions on the side of the salt container. I no longer have ich. But, hey, whatever. I guess results don't actually mean anything anymore. Go ahead and dose your tank with 3 teaspoons per gallon. It's way more than you need but it'll work.

Actually, you do still have ich.

That's not enough salt to kill all of it and you didn't treat long enough.

Ich can only be killed during the free swimming -- tomite -- stage.

It takes about three to four days for ich cysts to fall off the fish and into the substrate, depending on the temperature you treat at. That's four out of the seven days you treated for. They live in the substrate for about three days. That's seven days of your seven and you've no salt for those that are just hatching out. Sure, some will hatch early and will possibly be killed by the low salt, but many will not.

IMO you have trophonts in your substrate and possibly ich in the gills of your fish.

Now, if your tank remains ich free for a year, without you adding any more fish, then sure, it worked.

My 2 cents,

Roan

 

[Ghostshrimp55]

Wow, what a coincidence. Ich was introduced to my tank via my harlequin rasboras. When did I buy those you may ask? Well, that would be LAST SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER. I guess I'm ich-free at a dose that's way too low to possibly treat and kill ich. Thanks for your opinion.....which I didn't ask for, btw.

Also, you really should reread my post. I never completely got rid of the salt after the 7 days. I simply resumed my regular water change schedule of about 25% every other week. Contrary to what some here may think, the tomites really are intolerant of some very low salt levels. The little amount of salt that was left in the water was obviously enough to rid my tank of ich.

Actually, you do still have ich.

Thanks for the diagnosis, doc. I'll file it in the appropriate folder. You can keep your two cents.

 

[Roan Art]

Your opinion as well and you are entitled to it. However, please don't advocate that type of treatment to others as it has been proven in the past to not work.

Most likely you had a very low ich infestation and you caught it before it had a chance to get into your substrate. Congrats! Most people don't catch it in time at all.

Roan

 

[watermelon]

Just because someone has a few initials after their name that does not make him or her infalible, does it? He's a koi "expert" -- we'll stretch that to fish in general to give him the benefit of the doubt -- but does that mean he's also a water chemistry expert? Organic chemist? Tropical fish expert?

Dr Gerald Allen is an acknowledged fish expert, but he has written some pretty poor books on aquarium plants. Why not? He's not a plant expert.

I'm not deriding either of the above, I'm just stating that someone who is an acknowledged expert on one type of fish does not automatically make them an expert on others.

Now, I've read Dr. Johnson's article and a few others he's written. They are great stuff, but they really are geared towards koi and goldfish.

In regards to his ich treatment: the list he's given of fish that can be sensitive to salt is rather misleading. His instructions are for koi and other coldwater fishes, not tropical. To explain:

1. Recommendation of SG 1.002 from Daveedka, not 1.003 as by the koi vet. Ich will die with 2 teaspoons per gallon. IMO 3 teaspoons is overkill.

2. None of the fish on his "senstive" list will have problems with salt levels of SG 1.002, unless they are already in a bad way. The fish he has listed are "soft water" low TDS fish. Increasing the salt to 3 teaspoons per gallon as he recommends will increase the TDS of the water and stress those fish. This will also adversely affect their ability to osmoregulate. It's not surprising that he doesn't recommend using his method to treat those fish.

3. A temperature of 80* is the normal ich recommendation for cold water fishes such as koi and goldfish. Tropicals are, on average, kept around 80* normally and can thus go much higher than that.

4. An SG of 1.002 for the time it takes to treat for ich will not harm plants at all. There is no need to remove them from the tank.

5. I prefer to recommend that treatment be continued for 7 days after the last visible spot disappears rather than a specific number of days. This will help prevent undertreatment and a reoccurence of the parasite.

The rest of his article is excellent. Aeration is a must, especially for O2 intensive fish such as koi, goldfish, rainbowfish and others. Partials to remove the salt, absolutely. His dosing regime for the salt is great as well.

I reiterate, it's a great article and I have a lot of respect for the Koi Vet, but it is definitely geared towards cold water fishes.

When it comes to tropicals and aquarium fish types that we keep, I'd rather go with RTR and Daveedka's advice. It's tried and true for tropicals.

HTH

Roan

Hey look, I have been keeping fishes for 10 years..And if you think I will kill my fishes by overdosing them, then that is your opinion..And you said that it is 2 teaspoons per gallon..And when your expert Daveedka says that it is 1-3 teaspoons per gallon..As a matter of fact, I read some of Daveedka threads before..He even said one time, that maybe 2 tsp per gallon might not be enough because he heard that it did not cure Ich before...If you search his posts, it will tell you! Now, you are being very argumative and saying that I am wrong! Well, you telling me what is right, is not going to change how I feel!Now, you go ahead, and try to discredit me and you are discrediting Daveedka in the process by contradicting him!

 

[watermelon]

Just because someone has a few initials after their name that does not make him or her infalible, does it? He's a koi "expert" -- we'll stretch that to fish in general to give him the benefit of the doubt -- but does that mean he's also a water chemistry expert? Organic chemist? Tropical fish expert?

Dr Gerald Allen is an acknowledged fish expert, but he has written some pretty poor books on aquarium plants. Why not? He's not a plant expert.

I'm not deriding either of the above, I'm just stating that someone who is an acknowledged expert on one type of fish does not automatically make them an expert on others.

Now, I've read Dr. Johnson's article and a few others he's written. They are great stuff, but they really are geared towards koi and goldfish.

In regards to his ich treatment: the list he's given of fish that can be sensitive to salt is rather misleading. His instructions are for koi and other coldwater fishes, not tropical. To explain:

1. Recommendation of SG 1.002 from Daveedka, not 1.003 as by the koi vet. Ich will die with 2 teaspoons per gallon. IMO 3 teaspoons is overkill.

2. None of the fish on his "senstive" list will have problems with salt levels of SG 1.002, unless they are already in a bad way. The fish he has listed are "soft water" low TDS fish. Increasing the salt to 3 teaspoons per gallon as he recommends will increase the TDS of the water and stress those fish. This will also adversely affect their ability to osmoregulate. It's not surprising that he doesn't recommend using his method to treat those fish.

3. A temperature of 80* is the normal ich recommendation for cold water fishes such as koi and goldfish. Tropicals are, on average, kept around 80* normally and can thus go much higher than that.

4. An SG of 1.002 for the time it takes to treat for ich will not harm plants at all. There is no need to remove them from the tank.

5. I prefer to recommend that treatment be continued for 7 days after the last visible spot disappears rather than a specific number of days. This will help prevent undertreatment and a reoccurence of the parasite.

The rest of his article is excellent. Aeration is a must, especially for O2 intensive fish such as koi, goldfish, rainbowfish and others. Partials to remove the salt, absolutely. His dosing regime for the salt is great as well.

I reiterate, it's a great article and I have a lot of respect for the Koi Vet, but it is definitely geared towards cold water fishes.

When it comes to tropicals and aquarium fish types that we keep, I'd rather go with RTR and Daveedka's advice. It's tried and true for tropicals.

HTH

Roan

I looked back at my threads and here you have your expert Daveedka contridicting you...I know you might be high over your head in saying you know it all but I hate to break it to you that some people in this world are more intelligent than you! Here is a quote from Davedka:

"As far as salt Quantities, The range recommended is 1-3 teaspoons per gallon, I actually always do 2 teaspoons per gallon , and if tyhere is still ich visible after 5 days (never happens for me, but has for others) then I'd raise it to 3 teaspoons per gallon.

Dave"