OHM betta with fin rot: which antibiotic should I use next?
- Thread starter gingerinaustin
- Start date
Fish SiteMary Brennecke
BellaOnline's Fish Editor
Betta Care - Fin Rot Surgery
Guest Author - Jill Florio and Eileen, AKA EmgBettaNut
Jill here: One of my forum helpers wrote her detailed notes on fin rot surgery in the forum. She gave me permission to reprint her fine advice here. Please do not attempt this kind of treatment unless you have steady hands and are an experienced betta owner. Here is the blog on her experience:
Day One
"Teal has been battling finrot for weeks now..probably almost a month running. I treated him with bettafix/salt for weeks and switched to the stronger meds when that didn't seem to be doing the trick. I was on my third dose of the anti-fungus med when I noticed even more red spots breaking out on his anal fin now!! I added the last dose of the meds and noticed he seemed to be struggling a bit....I decided right then and there I was going to snip off the tips of his fins.
I figured it this way...I could try a different med on him and stress him out even more..and it may not even work and would only serve to weaken him more....or...I could do something drastic, like cut off the finrot. (I read about this being done by some) I decided to try the surgery thing.
OK..here's how it went....
OK...
I put the bowl with Teal on the table and also the other two bowls...pouring water from the bowl with the bettafix onto the towel and paper towl so it was good and wet.
I carefully cupped my hand around Teal and took him out of his bowl and put him on the wet paper towel folding it over the top of him leaving only the fins showing. (I'd like to say I managed this without him flopping around with me trying to get him under control...but I didn't). Anyway,I had to pour a bit more water over him so that his fins would spread out...didn't want to take off more than necessary. I quickly snipped off the tips of his tail and his anal fin...making sure I got it all but not taking too much off. I quickly wiped his fins with the peroxide Q-tip and put him in the bowl with salt and an extra drop of stress-coat. I put him in his bowl back in the tank and turned off the light.
Well, it went quickly..poor Teal is so stressed out he just hung head down in his bowl for a bit. He slowly seems to be coming out of it now, though his color is still a bit pale but not nearly as bad as just after the job.
I don't know if he will survive this or not, but the way I see it...I don't think he would have survived anymore medicating either...so if I was going to try this I wanted to do it when he was still fairly strong. I had been feeding him up good to try and keep him in condition during this whole process and also changing his water every day....adding the correct amount of meds to it each time. I'll let you all know how it turns out."
Day Two
"I checked him first thing this morning. He is back to his old self..(a bit short in the fin ) his color is looking good now. Only thing is, I see what looks like the start of some more finrot on his dorsel fin now.....dang! I knew I should have trimmed that one too, just to be safe...but, oh well. I'll leave it alone for now and see how it goes. I plan on changing his water every day and putting nothing but extra salt in it. Enough meds for this guy. Maybe the constant clean water will cause it to just...go away...lol..(always the optimist!)"
Day Three
"Teal seems to be doing rather well. I ended up trimming his dorsel fin too but I didn't take him out of his bowl to do it. Just gently cupped my hand around him and when I saw an opportunity...I snipped. I figure that was less stressful than taking him out of the water and having him flop around on the table till I could get a grip on him. Anyway, it worked.
I see no signs of fin rot at this time. I am keeping his bowl VERY clean. I transfer him between two bowls so that I can wipe out the one I take him out of. After cleaning the bowl I put fresh clean water with extra salt and bettafix in it, then float it in the tank so that it's ready for the next morning. I try to remember to feed him before changing his bowl...just to keep food stuff out of there, but I don't always. I do make sure to take out any cruds that show up.
Well, so far so good. It's hard to get a really good look at the tips of his fins as he is always moving around..but it looks like there may be some new growth starting already."
After a Week
"Teal's fins are looking Great! They are beginning to heal very well and there is no sign of finrot at all!
I'll just keep up the clean water each day with bettafix and extra salt..at least until the bettafix cycle is done. I may just keep him in that bowl and clean his water every day until his fins grow back completely..depends on how things look."
How to be sure it is fin rot
"A good indication is if the fin is slowly, or quickly disintegrating..or you see that the tail keeps getting shorter and shorter in that one spot where you notice the red or dark coloring.
They don't usually act sick, at least mine don't. Their tails just rot away....though if left untreated it will eventually get to their bodies and kill them."
Jill again - to see a picture of Teal after the surgery, click on the top right link, top of the page, labeled as post-surgery. Poor cutie! Once again, let me remind everyone that this technique is NOT for beginners - YOU COULD KILL YOUR FISH, and there are easier ways to handle fin rot. My article on Clean Water is the Best Medicine is a great starting point. However, this surgery can be beneficial. I would advise joining the Bella Fish Forum and discussing your options with the other members, before you go for the scissors!
My advice on the best guide to a happy healthy betta -
BellaOnline's Fish Editor
Betta Care - Fin Rot Surgery
Guest Author - Jill Florio and Eileen, AKA EmgBettaNut
Jill here: One of my forum helpers wrote her detailed notes on fin rot surgery in the forum. She gave me permission to reprint her fine advice here. Please do not attempt this kind of treatment unless you have steady hands and are an experienced betta owner. Here is the blog on her experience:
Day One
"Teal has been battling finrot for weeks now..probably almost a month running. I treated him with bettafix/salt for weeks and switched to the stronger meds when that didn't seem to be doing the trick. I was on my third dose of the anti-fungus med when I noticed even more red spots breaking out on his anal fin now!! I added the last dose of the meds and noticed he seemed to be struggling a bit....I decided right then and there I was going to snip off the tips of his fins.
I figured it this way...I could try a different med on him and stress him out even more..and it may not even work and would only serve to weaken him more....or...I could do something drastic, like cut off the finrot. (I read about this being done by some) I decided to try the surgery thing.
OK..here's how it went....
- I prepared my stuff:
- sanitized a pair of very sharp scissors in boiling water
- got two bowls of fresh clean water ready,floated them in Teal's tank to get the temp right.
- I added bettafix and extra salt to one bowl and just extra salt to the other.
- got out some peroxide and a Q-tip
- put a folded towl on the table with a folded clean paper towl on top of that.
OK...
I put the bowl with Teal on the table and also the other two bowls...pouring water from the bowl with the bettafix onto the towel and paper towl so it was good and wet.
I carefully cupped my hand around Teal and took him out of his bowl and put him on the wet paper towel folding it over the top of him leaving only the fins showing. (I'd like to say I managed this without him flopping around with me trying to get him under control...but I didn't). Anyway,I had to pour a bit more water over him so that his fins would spread out...didn't want to take off more than necessary. I quickly snipped off the tips of his tail and his anal fin...making sure I got it all but not taking too much off. I quickly wiped his fins with the peroxide Q-tip and put him in the bowl with salt and an extra drop of stress-coat. I put him in his bowl back in the tank and turned off the light.
Well, it went quickly..poor Teal is so stressed out he just hung head down in his bowl for a bit. He slowly seems to be coming out of it now, though his color is still a bit pale but not nearly as bad as just after the job.
I don't know if he will survive this or not, but the way I see it...I don't think he would have survived anymore medicating either...so if I was going to try this I wanted to do it when he was still fairly strong. I had been feeding him up good to try and keep him in condition during this whole process and also changing his water every day....adding the correct amount of meds to it each time. I'll let you all know how it turns out."
Day Two
"I checked him first thing this morning. He is back to his old self..(a bit short in the fin ) his color is looking good now. Only thing is, I see what looks like the start of some more finrot on his dorsel fin now.....dang! I knew I should have trimmed that one too, just to be safe...but, oh well. I'll leave it alone for now and see how it goes. I plan on changing his water every day and putting nothing but extra salt in it. Enough meds for this guy. Maybe the constant clean water will cause it to just...go away...lol..(always the optimist!)"
Day Three
"Teal seems to be doing rather well. I ended up trimming his dorsel fin too but I didn't take him out of his bowl to do it. Just gently cupped my hand around him and when I saw an opportunity...I snipped. I figure that was less stressful than taking him out of the water and having him flop around on the table till I could get a grip on him. Anyway, it worked.
I see no signs of fin rot at this time. I am keeping his bowl VERY clean. I transfer him between two bowls so that I can wipe out the one I take him out of. After cleaning the bowl I put fresh clean water with extra salt and bettafix in it, then float it in the tank so that it's ready for the next morning. I try to remember to feed him before changing his bowl...just to keep food stuff out of there, but I don't always. I do make sure to take out any cruds that show up.
Well, so far so good. It's hard to get a really good look at the tips of his fins as he is always moving around..but it looks like there may be some new growth starting already."
After a Week
"Teal's fins are looking Great! They are beginning to heal very well and there is no sign of finrot at all!
I'll just keep up the clean water each day with bettafix and extra salt..at least until the bettafix cycle is done. I may just keep him in that bowl and clean his water every day until his fins grow back completely..depends on how things look."
How to be sure it is fin rot
"A good indication is if the fin is slowly, or quickly disintegrating..or you see that the tail keeps getting shorter and shorter in that one spot where you notice the red or dark coloring.
They don't usually act sick, at least mine don't. Their tails just rot away....though if left untreated it will eventually get to their bodies and kill them."
Jill again - to see a picture of Teal after the surgery, click on the top right link, top of the page, labeled as post-surgery. Poor cutie! Once again, let me remind everyone that this technique is NOT for beginners - YOU COULD KILL YOUR FISH, and there are easier ways to handle fin rot. My article on Clean Water is the Best Medicine is a great starting point. However, this surgery can be beneficial. I would advise joining the Bella Fish Forum and discussing your options with the other members, before you go for the scissors!
My advice on the best guide to a happy healthy betta -
Thanks for trying to help.
be careful when you switch between so many meds. there is no telling how the fish is going to react with them att in the water and how the meds will effect each other. treatment is also pretty stressful in itself, and mixing meds is even worse.
Thanks, Jon. I haven't mixed any meds: been doing them one at a time. Luckily, he shows zero signs of illness except for his disappearing fins. He is doing his happy dance and eating like a piggy. When do I throw in the towel, give up on the idea of a show-quality betta and pretend he's a crowntail? lol I'm afraid if I give in, the rot will eventually progress to his body. I'd like to see at least a bit of regrowth before I stop the meds. Do I continue the tetracycline or try something else--and what else? Order kanamycin online? Try the triple sulfa I can get at the LFS down the street? ??? ??? ?????
if the damage is from ammonia burns(and there is a good chance given the fish was in transport 3 days)
the meds won't stop it..the ammonia breaks down the tissue..it takes time for the affects to show(usually within a week of acclimating the fish) it is dead tissue so it basically falls off..the difference is no noticable fungus..dis coloration then the fins wither away the boney part of the fin is un affected..the fins will grow back..keep the water pristine..adding meds will inhibit fungal(secondary infection)
use broad spectrum like maracyn..it can take several weeks to heal even months.
the meds won't stop it..the ammonia breaks down the tissue..it takes time for the affects to show(usually within a week of acclimating the fish) it is dead tissue so it basically falls off..the difference is no noticable fungus..dis coloration then the fins wither away the boney part of the fin is un affected..the fins will grow back..keep the water pristine..adding meds will inhibit fungal(secondary infection)
use broad spectrum like maracyn..it can take several weeks to heal even months.
Thanks star_rider. As you can see from the first pic I posted, the fin rot has definitely affected the "boney" parts of his caudal fin. From what I've read and images I've googled, severe ammonia burns leave blackened spots or edges, and I don't see anything like that on my betta. I'm keeping the water quality pristine as always. Thanks for trying to help.
Almond leaves?
Eager to find answers, I e-mailed the breeder and transhipper last night, and both responded quickly. The transhipper said she had her best luck with amoxicillin and/or colloidal silver, but warned fin rot is hard to cure (no duh!). She also mentioned the 'surgical' method, but the fin rot is going to have to get a lot worse before I get that desperate.
The breeder recommended getting some almond leaf to put in the tank to help with healing. I hadn't read anything about in all my Internet research on fin rot in bettas, but once I googled "almond leaf betta", I found a lot of sites.
Almond leaf is a natural way to lower pH (like putting driftwood in a tank); the breeder says bettas prefer more acidic water. The almond leaves release tannins, lignins, humic and fulvic acids and other compounds which have antibacterial, antifungal and even antiparasitic qualities. Research has found almond leaf eradicates Trichodina and ectoparasites and inhibits Aeromonas in fish. These leaves are widely used among breeders and fish keepers in Asia.
I found both whole leaves and an extract. Both products are cheap: $5. What the hell--it can't hurt and it might help; in any event, it's probably a better option than Melafix. I ordered some of both products.
Hope this information helps someone with a similar situation (like, anyone that's ever owned a betta).
Eager to find answers, I e-mailed the breeder and transhipper last night, and both responded quickly. The transhipper said she had her best luck with amoxicillin and/or colloidal silver, but warned fin rot is hard to cure (no duh!). She also mentioned the 'surgical' method, but the fin rot is going to have to get a lot worse before I get that desperate.
The breeder recommended getting some almond leaf to put in the tank to help with healing. I hadn't read anything about in all my Internet research on fin rot in bettas, but once I googled "almond leaf betta", I found a lot of sites.
Almond leaf is a natural way to lower pH (like putting driftwood in a tank); the breeder says bettas prefer more acidic water. The almond leaves release tannins, lignins, humic and fulvic acids and other compounds which have antibacterial, antifungal and even antiparasitic qualities. Research has found almond leaf eradicates Trichodina and ectoparasites and inhibits Aeromonas in fish. These leaves are widely used among breeders and fish keepers in Asia.
I found both whole leaves and an extract. Both products are cheap: $5. What the hell--it can't hurt and it might help; in any event, it's probably a better option than Melafix. I ordered some of both products.
Hope this information helps someone with a similar situation (like, anyone that's ever owned a betta).
