We have 1 male and 1 female (purchased together) German Blue Ram and they get along fine. I guess we haven't seen them in spawning mode yet but we haven't had any problems at all. Feed them chilid pellets, beefheart, bloodworms and they seem to lap it up. Its correct that they hang around the bottom but they do chase the frozen cubes around the tank. Been a joy to watch!
One or two GBRs
- Thread starter PSUsam11
- Start date
it is true that Ramirezi will pull some food from the surface ..but in general they prefer to feed after the food has dropped into the water.
The Altispinosa I have will generally not feed on anything that isn't on the bottom or near the bottom,. The exception I have seen is when I drop bloodworms into the tank.. they will swim up (mid water column) to pick off the ones dropping .
if you look at the physiology of the Altispinosa you will notice the location of the mouth...much better suited for picking food off the bottom.
the ramirezi not as much.. which may explain why they will feed or grab food higher in the water column.
(just a guess on my part)
The Altispinosa I have will generally not feed on anything that isn't on the bottom or near the bottom,. The exception I have seen is when I drop bloodworms into the tank.. they will swim up (mid water column) to pick off the ones dropping .
if you look at the physiology of the Altispinosa you will notice the location of the mouth...much better suited for picking food off the bottom.
the ramirezi not as much.. which may explain why they will feed or grab food higher in the water column.
(just a guess on my part)
According to Dr. Paul Loiselle, rams are haremically polygamous and a single male should be kept with several females to prevent concentrated spawning aggression on a single female.
I've kept rams many time over the 46 years I've been keeping fish, and have found this to be true when kept in ratios of 1:4 or greater. The males change partners as the different females come into condition.
In answer to the OP's original question, they can be kept singly.
Mark
With respect to Dr. Loiselle, whom I have met and had many interesting conversations with, he would appear to be mistaken here. The genus Mikrogeophagus was initially erected by Jens Meulengracht-Madsen in 1968, and he placed what was then Apistogramma ramirezi into this genus; the second ram (Bolivian) was similarly placed. I won't detail the subsequent changes to the genus of these two species [those who are interested can read online the article by Kullander here http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2011/f/zt03131p051.pdf], but Kullander finally decided the issue and placed this species in Mikrogeophagus. Among the unique traits of species in this genus are monogamy, isomorphic sexes, and open spawners.
I haven't come across any cichlid authority who disagrees, until now anyway; it would be useful to read Loiselle's work if you can link it.
Byron.
I do belive, tho, that in our world(aquariums) many have found that Ramirezi will , when presented in a situation described by Mark, not select and breed with a single female but often will select and breed with another female in the same tank. 1:4 ratio
(possibly a discussion on another thread to not take this thread away from the initial question)
the male will often in a breeding situation become aggressive to the female, I have seen the opposite occur as well.
I do not believe we are questioning Mikrogeophagus vs Apistogramma..I didn't think that was still a debate
(possibly a discussion on another thread to not take this thread away from the initial question)
the male will often in a breeding situation become aggressive to the female, I have seen the opposite occur as well.
I do not believe we are questioning Mikrogeophagus vs Apistogramma..I didn't think that was still a debate
If you can find his book, 'The Cichlid Aquarium', he details the breeding habits of the ram, among many other cichlids. I'll have to wade through the net to find a link to the specific statement; provided there is one.
With that said, my experience with rams, as I stated, spans several decades. I also have kept them in single pairs; sometimes with more success than others. The most successful pairs, for me, were in aquaria where the female had plenty of room to get away from the male when she needed. There were also plenty of target and dither in these tanks for the males to take out aggression. It was after I started keeping discus in the 80s that I put several rams(1:6 as I recall) into the heavily-planted discus tank. There were fewer dither and target fish in the tank, yet the spawning aggression by the male was never concentrated on a single female. Spawns were defended by both parents; predominantly by the female, tho. After fry dispersed the male quickly paired with the next female to come into condition.
This behavior was repeated in three more discus tanks over the next 30 years with ratios never below 1:4. The one experiment I never tried was to keep multiple males and females in the same aquarium. The keeping of rams was always more of a by-product of discus keeping and not a species that I was actively trying to breed and/or catalog behaviors.
Mark
We tend, as aquarists, to think of things in terms of the glass boxes we keep our fish in. When we keep a single pair of a species in a tank for the duration of their lives, it's only natural to assume that they partner for life when they spawn together for the duration of their lives with us. They've simply "paired for life" as a result of lack of options, not necessarily normal behavior. This isn't, however, their "natural" breeding behavior. Fish that are considered monogamous are so only for the duration of the one spawning event. The only exceptions to this, that I know of, are a few members of the neolamprologines that form colonies based around an alpha pair.
My apologies to the OP for the hijack.
Mark
My apologies to the OP for the hijack.
Mark
Thanks for the follow-up info. Don't spend time hunting for a link, I can do a search; and anyway, it still remains his opinion. I tend to go with the majority to be safe, and they are on the side of bonded pairs. I do admit the bonding may not last for life, or rather I should say, that the sources say this. I wouldn't begin to presume anything from my own limited experiences.
But on that, mine have been with the Bolivian, M. altispinosus, and I am convinced they must select their mate and they bond. Putting any two fish together is not likely to work, though obviously in some instances they might decide they like each other. I had a "pair" that were obviously not bonded; they spawned four times before the male killed her fairly quickly, and this was in a 5-foot 115g tank thick with plants and with over 100 various characins and corys. At the time I didn't understand the bonding issue, or I would have separated them when the male began stocking the female. It works both ways though; the female during one spawning actually had the male cowering in the corner as she guarded the eggs. And if you can observe a group of these fish in a tank, it is easy to see the bonded pairs.
Byron.
But on that, mine have been with the Bolivian, M. altispinosus, and I am convinced they must select their mate and they bond. Putting any two fish together is not likely to work, though obviously in some instances they might decide they like each other. I had a "pair" that were obviously not bonded; they spawned four times before the male killed her fairly quickly, and this was in a 5-foot 115g tank thick with plants and with over 100 various characins and corys. At the time I didn't understand the bonding issue, or I would have separated them when the male began stocking the female. It works both ways though; the female during one spawning actually had the male cowering in the corner as she guarded the eggs. And if you can observe a group of these fish in a tank, it is easy to see the bonded pairs.
Byron.
