Oranda's & a new tank

[Annie57]

Hi,

I recieved a 60 litre aquarium for Christmas which inclludes a air pump & filter. I immediately set it up according to the instuctions which clearly stated that fish could be added after 24 hours. I purchased 2 calico Oranda's (Holly & Ivy) & a couple of plants from a reputable aquatics centre.

As a newbie I have been searching the internet for more information on keeping them healthy. The fish were added on the 27th December and I am now becoming paranoid that they will become ill as the Nitrate levels are very high. I dont believe that I am overfeeding them. The fish are generally swimming and eating OK.
I have noticed that there is a little reddening around one of the gills of each fish (although they were like this when I bought them), and Holly occasionally twitches.
Do I just need to wait until the tank cycles for the Nitrate levels to reduce, should I do a partial water change? (the instructions with the tank suggests that it is only necessary to do a 30% water change every 8 weeks) Is there any behavior that I should look for that gives me an indication that they are reacting adversely to the levels in the tank.

 

[Lupin]

:welcome: to AC!

What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? If your ammonia and nitrites are above 0.25, do a water change immediately until ammonia and nitrites are both 0.25 and below. I'd suggest doing daily water change by about 20%. Your tank can support only one goldfish. Feed them once every other day. What is the temperature right now? What test kit are you using?

 

[Coler]

Hi,

I recieved a 60 litre aquarium for Christmas which inclludes a air pump & filter. I immediately set it up according to the instuctions which clearly stated that fish could be added after 24 hours. I purchased 2 calico Oranda's (Holly & Ivy) & a couple of plants from a reputable aquatics centre.

unfortunately not true for a tank which is starting from scratch - check out this link for how the bacteria in a tank need to be cultivated

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84598

As a newbie I have been searching the internet for more information on keeping them healthy. The fish were added on the 27th December and I am now becoming paranoid that they will become ill as the Nitrate levels are very high. I dont believe that I am overfeeding them. The fish are generally swimming and eating OK.
I have noticed that there is a little reddening around one of the gills of each fish (although they were like this when I bought them), and Holly occasionally twitches.
Do I just need to wait until the tank cycles for the Nitrate levels to reduce,

at this point it is not likely to be excess nitrate, although that is possible; most likely it is build up of ammonia and/or nitrite, as you have not been doing water changes - the link I gave you explains the necessity of these where you have added fish without 'cycling' the tank or establishing the necessary bacteria by e.g. adding filter media from another old and established tank. reddening of the gills is likely ammonia burns. what kind of test kit are you using ? the paper strips are useless.

a cycled tank does not reduce nitrate - water changes do.

should I do a partial water change? (the instructions with the tank suggests that it is only necessary to do a 30% water change every 8 weeks) Is there any behavior that I should look for that gives me an indication that they are reacting adversely to the levels in the tank.

since you have fish in the tank you have two choices :

1. return fish and fishless cycle, as described in the link.
2. keep fish and commit to a fish cycle. this requires :

a. a good liquid drop test kit (API make a great one) for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
b. you to use the test kit twice a day.
c. you to do a water change whenever ammonia or nitrite is .25 ppm or higher, using a good dechlorinator (Prime Seachem is great - here is a link :

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Prime.html

d. you do the changes as necessary - 50% daily is fine if this is what it takes or more - until you have ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate slowly increasing.
e. once this happy state of affairs is reached your tank is cycled (woot!) - this means that the bacteria established in the tank are sufficient to process the waste produced by the fish from ammonia, through nitrite (both highly toxix) to nitrate (much less toxic)
f. now you move to changing 25% water weekly (unless you have a lot of or particularly messy fish, using a gravel vac to siphon up waste at the same time. that nonsense about water changes every 8 weeks is not true
g. just bear in mind that it can take 4 weeks or more to reach the cycled state, although frequency of water changes does go down as you get closer.

you may wonder why no one told you this when they sold you your fish and tank; unfortunately that is all too common. have a look at the links above, and consider whether you can commit to the fish in cycle - if you skimp on the testing and water changes you are going to have some sick fishies, which will make you sad as well, and cause you stress

but, stick with it - its a marvellous hobby and worth the effort.

oh and welcome to AC I've posted some advice in blue above. for now, if you havn't done a water change since starting the tank, get some water conditioner from the fish store and do a 50% change as soon as you can. It's unlikely that you have high nitrates at this early stage, although possible as you have changed no water; verify your test results with a good liquid drop test kit and rejoice if this shows nitrates - that would mean you are very close to cycled (albeit not via the reccomended method).

 

[THE V]

Annie57

I'm sorry to say that the 60 liter (15 US gal) is way too small for the Oranda's to be healthy and happy in. They might not be very big right now but if you take good care of them they will grow to be 25cm in length. Measure just how big they will get in time on your tank and you will understand why they need more room. They will need an absolute minimum of a 170 liter tank (45 US gal) to be happy. Please either take the oranda's back to the fishstore or buy a larger tank. There are a lot of smaller species of fish that you can put in that size of a tank that are very enjoyable.

 

[Flaringshutter]

:welcome: Welcome to AC!

And might I add, kudos to you for looking for more information and being such a good fish parent!
It's great that you followed the instructions exactly - unfortunately, the instructions are giving you very poor advice. This is common - most instructions that come with aquariums are not worth the paper they're printed on. So you're not alone - most of us started exactly the way you have, looking for more information when the included instructions didn't work so well.

Coler has given you some very good advice above. I definitely agree - if you keep the fish you'll be doing a fishless cycle, which is more difficult to keep in balance, but if you want to keep the fish you have bought it is necessary.

I agree with The V as well, the tank is ultimately too small for two goldfish, however, I believe the two can be happy in a 35 or 40 gallon.

If you want to keep a small, relatively low-maintenance tank, however, I would recommend a large school of white cloud minnows. They do not require a heater and in large schools they are very beautiful. 15-20 white clouds would be very nice in a 15 gallon tank.

 

[Annie57]

Thanks for all your help, I have done water changes each day and bought a good test kit, test results have reduced and are now: Ammonia 0 Nitrates 20ppm nitrites 1ppm PH 7.4, Fish are looking much happier and I will continue to do regular tests and partaial water changes

Thanks again

 

[fishcatch22]

hmmmmm... i'd seem that your tank is nearing the end of it's cycle, and that the fish survived through the worst of it... unfortunately, they have probably been scarred for life by the ammonia. also, as mentioned above they will grow too large for your tank... I used to have an oranda named ryu who was about as large around as a small orange. they also will produce too much waste for your filter to handle and you'll always have nitrate problems, due to once again being too small for that size of a tank. I would reccomend that you return them.... but if you really want to keep them, you could always get a larger aquarium.... a tank of around 40-55 gallons (about160-220 liters I beleive) should be sutible for the both of them as adults.

 

[Firebelly__girl]

As said above even if you have the tank readings under control, the fish are to much for the tank, its to small for even one full grown. You should take them back, or get a bigger tank for them soon. Tanks that small are better for small tropical fish, not goldfish.