Pale Bolivian Rams?

Thanks so much for all the replies!

I’m hoping that the bogwood will help to reduce the pH a little (bogwood only been there a week), but as a novice I’m probably not best placed to fiddle around with chemical additives to reduce the pH myself – might cause more problems than it resolves! I’m sending up a little prayer that they’ll become acclimatised to it over time, as long as it’s consistent. Will check effects of bogwood on the alkalinity in a few more days.

Re the photos – I’d say mine are definitely more washed out than even your “pale” pic. Of the two males, the more aggressive one has a yellowy hue but a more distinctive black
stripe and spot, whilst the one who gets hounded away from one side of the tank
has a rosy-grey hue, and his black markings are less distinct.

The dorsal fins are generally flattened - I’ve only seen the spines fully upright a few times. Funnily enough, based on the black spines I’d say I had a male and a female, but I’m relying on the upward slope between spawning tube and anal fin for sexing, which indicates that they are both male! That, and the chasing………..and that the LFS thought they were both male…….

The tank is quite nicely divided, but they tend to come to the front for feeding, and one then chases the other away. I can creep up to the tank and they come forward to check out the offerings, but if I raise a camera to tank level they dash off to hide! So I can’t even get any pics, this is the best I’ve managed so far, this is the “chasee”…….

Bolivian1.JPG
 
Ooh hey, thanks for bringing this back up, I'm dying to talk about them!!

Well, there has been a number of developments actually. The main one being, that they may not actually be both males after all. :) After I re-scaped the decor a bit and added more bogwood to create more territories, suddenly they became friends.....and in fact became virtually inseparable, swimming closely enough to be touching. I’veseen some head shaking from both of them….substrate picking from both ofthem…..and a peculiar kind of gentle “revolving” up and down around oneanother. There’s been no lip-locking,and no obvious flirting - apart from when one seemed to be rubbing itselfagainst the driftwood in view of the other

I’ve looked long and hard and it is possible that nowthey are getting along, one is showing more signs of a blunt ovipositor thanwas really visible before…..but it's still not 100% clear. I’ve tried a zoom lens to get pictures, butthe zoom is not strong enough to show sufficient details. There are subtle differences between the twofish - one is certainly slimmer than the other, with extensions on the tail finand extending second and third dorsal fin rays, which the larger fish lacks,but I still couldn't say for sure. Theparts of the fish which tell the real story remain stubbornly ambiguous, but isthe behaviour giving them away?

Feed time was still leading to squabbling, and in fact after 2-3 days of being all loved up, they had a tiff and were back to the smaller one (BR1) chasing the larger (BR2) again. Today they are playing an odd advance/retreat game....BR2 keeps nervously approaching BR1, and may or may not be chased away. So it advances retreats, advances retreats. Sometimes they just hover over one another. Watching them now, BR2 has been advancing/retreating all afternoon and is now being tolerated alongside BR1.

I have no idea what's going on with them, but their colours are now remarkably similar....both have pale colouration, the eye stripe and lateral spot is faded on both, and now BOTH display grey shading/black spotted bars.

I don't know what to do next!!

ETA sorry for inconsistent spacing, I copied this from an email to an aquarist friend and it doesn;t appear to copy across very well!
 
Sounds like love is in the air.

I had a pair that mated only once, and their behaviour was completely different during that period.
The rest of the time they acted like they hated each other. And, like you, I wasn't sure of their sexes until they actually laid eggs.
I do hope they breed for you - they are so interesting to watch when caring for their young.
As long as they are not stressing each other out you don't need to do anything.
They like flat rocks to lay eggs on, and I believe slightly warmer temperatures encourages them (but that is my impression only.)
 
I'll leave it to others to interpret mating behavior, but hopefully you do have a pair! Let us know what they're up to.
 
Ah jeez, its like having lovestruck teenagers.....they're not speaking, and BR1 is being especially mean! Poor BR2 tiptoes cautiously around the tank, trying to avoid being seen. BR1 has got a right mood on and is trying to claim the entire tank, territories or no territories.

In fact I'm on the verge of returning BR1 to the LFS and keeping the more gentle BR2 alone for a while. I think they are both a bit stressed, although they're happy enough to stuff their cichlid faces with food twice a day. I need to find BR2 a selection of potential mates......

Oh believe me I have round rocks, flat stones, bogwood caves, everything a self respecting breeding cichlid requires. :) Er, except for a willing partner.....
 
I was thinking how the type of lighting used can also influence how they look to us. Mine seem to change constantly, but their behavior and coloring has been very... lively, though I haven't noticed any mating. If the females territorial behavior is similar the males, then it's possible that I also have a female and just don't know it?

I don't want to hijack Olivia's thread, but also need help in this area, as I'd love for my Bo to have a mate. In the meantime, I hope she won't mind me posting a video of my rams showing their normal behavior. If anyone wants to guess the sex, or which ones to move to another tank (cycling as we speak), I'd appreciate it!

[video=youtube;mL7BnPvSK_M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL7BnPvSK_M[/video]
 
Hey Jannika, course I don't mind. Great vid....sorry I can't be of any help, I'm equally lost with my two!

Bitbot, I know LOL very clinical.....although I actually call them Arthur and Martha (Hotel and Motel didn't seem right somehow). I just didn't want to look like I was anthrop......anthropom.......you know. :)

I'm in the process of coming up with a video of Arthur and Martha interacting, to see what people think, but although I can now operate the camera (duh), I can't work out how to avoid getting a reflection of myself! Guess I'll wait until tonight when I can turn off all the lights other than those of the tank.....anyway, I just did a water change and a bit of vallisneria pruning, so they are hiding separately in abject terror at the moment.

I have been offered a straight swap by the LFS...this pair for another pair, but they really ARE a pair, as in already paired off in the tank at the store. Mmm, tempting....
 
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