palytoxin question...

I didn't wear gloves when fragging them the first time...the metallic taste in my mouth the next day was not all that tasty. At the very least you're bound to deal with that.

Good to know!!! I smooshed some zoas the other day and it released some brownish looking stuff into the water when I did that. I luckly didn't have any cuts on my hands that day and I knew the dangers of zoas, but the next day I did have a funny metallic taste in my mouth and didn't think about the zoas the day before being the reason.. now I know. Thanks Grins.. love learning new things every day.
 
I'm realllllly bad about not wearing gloves in the tank. Since I was naive about palytoxins when fragging my first zoas I have not bothered to wear them when fragging them a 2nd time either. But if I need to frag another one, I'll wear them. Of course I say I'll wear gloves when I need to work in the tank for an extended period of time and I never do...and end up with hives. Like I said, I'm bad.
 
thanks for the advice guys! i think i'll have to get some gloves because my hands are covered in cracks/cuts becasue i have to wash my hands constantly at work. the last thing i want is to have a bad taste in my mouth, or worse get poisoned for real and have to go to the hospital...no thanks. it's amazing that we can keep something in our homes that is one of the deadliest creatures in the world, isn't it?
 
yeah, i work in a pharmacy and we have lots of powder-free gloves. getting the powdered ones would kind of defeat the purpose of trying to keep gunk out of the tank. thank goodness i'm not allergic to latex, cause i don't think we have any vinyl gloves...i work in the morning so i'll have to bring a box home with me. thanks!
 
Here is some info on how poisonous Palytoxins are...
Palytoxin
The crude ethanol extracts of the Palythoa toxica proved to be so toxic that an accurate LD50 was difficult to determine. More recently, the toxicity has been determined to be 50-100 ng/kg i.p. in mice. The compound is an intense vasoconstrictor; in dogs, it causes death within 5 min at 60 ng/kg. By extrapolation, a toxic dose in a human would be about 4 micrograms. It is the most toxic organic substance known!
Shimizu [27] and Moore [28] published the chemical structure of palytoxin and it was prepared synthetically in 1989 [29,30]. Palytoxin is a fabulously interesting compound, with a bizarre structure and many extraordinary signs (Fig. 6). Palytoxin is a large, very complex molecule with lipophilic and hydrophilic areas. The palytoxin molecule has the longest continuous chain of carbon atoms known to exist in a natural product. In the molecule of palytoxin, C129H223N3O54, 115 of the 129 carbons are in a continuous chain.. There are 54 atoms of oxygen, but only 3 atoms of nitrogen. Another unusual structure of palytoxin is that it contains 64 stereogenic centers, which means that palytoxin can have 264 stereoisomers! Added to this, the double bonds can exhibit cis/trans isomerism, which means that palytoxin can have more than 1021 (one sextilion) stereoisomers! This staggering molecular complexity should indicate the difficult nature of designing a stereocontrolled synthetic strategy that will produce just the one correct (natural) stereocenter out of >1021 possible stereoisomers.
Palytoxin induces powerful membrane depolarization and ionic channeling [31,32]. Palytoxin is a potent hemolysin, histamine releaser, inhibitor of Na/K ATPase, and a cation ionophore [33]. It is also a non-TPA-type tumor promoter [34,35].

Has anyone died from handling zoas/palys? Not that I am aware of. However, I know lots of people who have become ill and one club memeber that was hospitalized for eating while fragging.(did not know of toxins.)

RXdoc, I see you are from the LOU! If you haven't checked out SEASL yet please LMK. It is a great local club! PM me for details!
Rich
 
I agree with everything on that sheet except that it is the most toxic substance known. Botulinum toxin still takes the cake there. I wonder why they write that when botulinum's LD50 is exceptionally smaller--meaning it is more deadly. Anyway, one thing to notice about this toxin is that it is (a primarily carbohydrate based, as I mentioned earlier, which is highly unusual and b) the molecule is gigantic compared to many other toxins.
 
soooooo

heres bobs take.

initially when i learned about the dangers of paly toxins, this guy had posted a thread on RC.

he was moving his tank, and had all of his zoo colonies in 1 big 50 gal rubbermaid container.

during the move, naturally some of the colonies had ripped and been irritated.

his dog drank GALLONS of water from that rubbermaid, and perrished w/in 24 hours.

soooooo i freaked, i have 2 cats, and got on google. what I found were just a bunch of mixed opinions.

until, another dude on RC was fraggin his zoos, and got a squirt of zoo goo directly in they eye.

his eye swole up, and he went to the er. he was convinced that he was poisonrd.

but the docs gave him meds for his eye and for an alergic reaction.

this thread went nutz. a lot of opinions again, back and forth between poisining and allergic reactions.

then a doctor got on the thread and really laid it down.

he said that the sand particles in the zoo itself had ALSO been squirted into his eye. this scratched the surface of his eyball, irritated it, and he had an allegic reaction. the good doc also made a point to point out that there is no way to definitaly attribut the reaction to palytoxins, and not some other irritant present in his tank water.

he also said that Palytoxins were intially discovered and studied by the american army to be used as a weaponized poison. turns out, paly toxins are like, uber deadly, BUT...

getting zoo goo on yor hads aint gonna kill you.

you literally need to like cut youself wide open, and introduce a few drops of the zoo goo directly into your blood stream.

or if you were to injest like 5 or 6 zoos directly you could mos def perish.

then yesterday, my friend royalscott on RS was fragging here zoos in her tank, gloveless.

her cleaner shrimp managed to open a scab on her arm. she started tearing and accidently smashed a zoo before she realized that she had an open wound on her arm, in her tank.

she immediatly felt light headed, short of breath, and her heart rate sky rocketed.

she had to go to the ER las night, and this was her "im okay post this mornin.

I got home from the ER around 9:30pm last night.

My BP finally stabilized as well as my heart rate several hours later. In the ER I called the local reef store and she said when I pushed on the zoa polyp, I pissed it off and that minute amount of toxin it put off mixed in the tank water got into the cut the cleaner shrimp gave me. Allergic reaction?

One thing I learned from all this, know what is in your tank and know what it can do to you. Also, take the info to the Er with you & tell them what they should do. Drs. do not know crap about saltwater inhabitants & will talk down to you about palytoxins. I was told that no store would sell me something this toxic!!!

Talk about a scary wake up call! Going to get GLOVES today!!!

again, the reaction wasnt directly attributed to the paly toxins, but more towards said individuals allergic reaction to a minor amount of the toxins.



SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

i dont always wear gloves when im in my tank

BUT, because it will be a cold day in hell that i dont have some sort of "flesh wound on my hands or arms, if i have to touch let alone frag or move zoos, the gloves go on.

i am also very very careful with the water i remove from my tank during WC's. (i love my cats)

im sure that i have been exposed to paly toxins (i do have a reef tank) but it has not entered my body.

a lil bit will make you feel like crap. a lot can absolutly kill you.

so id say wear gloves if you have to handle them. (i just use the wrist length ones)
never go into the tank w/o gloves if you have more than a baby papercut on your hands
never let anything touch, smell, or taste water that has come from your tank.

y'all should be fine.
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never let anything touch, smell, or taste water that has come from your tank.

Great, you've just reminded me of the time I swallowed a whole load of tank water (before I invested in a syphon!!!!):yuck:
 
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