paradigm shift.... the way we look at the business end of the hobby

Mgamer20o0

BobsTropicalPlants.com
Staff member
Jun 4, 2003
31,221
19
89
www.bobstropicalplants.com
how often do we see something at a store and flip out or go home and tell everyone on the internet? how bad this or that place is. often doing no good other then to show off our superiority or to pat our self on the back.

for me i like this hobby because there is something new to learn. last year i started to more intrigued with the business side of the hobby. going from the start from farmer transshiper wholesaler lfs to the home. i am starting to see things differently and i think others should too.

one thing no matter how much people hate the chain stores they do add a lot to the hobby. they are able to open up stores where others couldnt stay open. they do bring in a lot of people to the hobby. yes not always reliable for info but again look whos giving it. min wage people who may care for pets but dont know it all but expect to. i read story after story about how bad they are but no one ever gives any real answers. nothing gets done other then a pat on their back. when someone gets something wrong getting on the high horse and putting them down does nothing. all it does is make them think your crazy more so not what to change. often a good way to get info to someone is to ask a question. i thought it was this way or did you know vs straight out telling them wrong......

lfs where most people here at least go to get fish. often times people go to stores some times they are great some times bad some times just so so. the same applys to the chain stores. one thing people dont always get is its a business. its their lively hood. people expect them to know everything. some times people learn the wrong way its hard to change too. it seems the newer stores opening up are more from hobbiest vs just a business. now days more then ever its not easy. stores keep going out of business because of obvious reasons. so again going in and trying to prove them wrong wont get anything done. more so for the threads i seen people telling them to yell and throw a fit. all that gets is you getting kicked out.

the point of my rant. the paradigm shift.... changing the way think.....

next time your in a store stop and think is this helping? what can you do to make it better? then take another step back and make sure on their level and not on a high horce.

i am sure ill think of more.....
 
It's not the people who lack knowledge that I take issue with, it's those that don't care to learn about the animals they're caring for and how to properly do so. Flipping out on them of course does no good, and it's generally more productive to politely offer a contrary stance if you feel their information is misguided. When I worked at a LFS here and someone asked me a question I didn't know the answer to I'd be honest about it, offer to help them find the information they were looking for if we had a book on the subject, and then go home and research it on my own time after work.
I've seen good and bad in both chain stores and local shops; PetSmart is great here while another locally owned business is absolutely horrid for both customer service and the conditions their fish are kept in. I'll discontinue shopping at a store based on my own ethical issues with their negligence, but I've never taken it out on a worker. Usually how much the employees and managers care about their job or business is reflected by the condition of their tanks. If they don't care about running things on even an average level then why should they be paid to do it at all?
Unfortunately you can't force anyone to learn. In one store around here one of the floor managers has the mindset of: "I honestly don't know, they're just fish, they hide all the time" and "I have some of everything. I just put them all in the tank and see what lives." (1. in reference to albino bristlenose when asked about sexual dimorphism; 2. in reference to her tank at home of african cichlids when asked what kinds she kept/which lakes) While I was a little put off by that mindset, she still does try to be helpful. Some people are just too apathetic; whether they enjoy the hobby or it's only a business to them; and there's not much we can do to change that other than choose which businesses we support.
 
Last edited:
Good points. I find it amazing how many hobbyists want both sides of an issue. They want there employee to be the know all and never not know everything, but often do not take the time to reasearch and learn themselves.
 
Good points. I find it amazing how many hobbyists want both sides of an issue. They want there employee to be the know all and never not know everything, but often do not take the time to reasearch and learn themselves.
well its not just our hobby its a lot of things but i dont have time to deal with the whole world. also people want the lowest price and often done differently then how its done. once case is bettas. so many people get worked up on how they are shipped or kept in the cups. if it was done some of the ways they want it the prices would be 2-3 times more and we would hear about over pricing.
 
I haven't worked on the fish store side. But I'm sure it must be disheartening to see customers determined to buy this and that.. knowing they aren't taking an interest either in the welfare or needs of that animal, fish, or reptile.

I was at a chain store several months back where the gal working there told me she just 3 more red-clawed crabs to some idiot who bought the same things earlier that day. That customer had left the bag of them inside a car while he went shopping. The crabs were dead 20 minutes later (high heat here). What could that sales employee do about it? Not a thing. It's her job to sell fish/crabs to anyone willing to hand over the cash. Even when she knows they're making bone-head decisions about compatibility and care.
 
I haven't worked on the fish store side. But I'm sure it must be disheartening to see customers determined to buy this and that.. knowing they aren't taking an interest either in the welfare or needs of that animal, fish, or reptile.

I was at a chain store several months back where the gal working there told me she just 3 more red-clawed crabs to some idiot who bought the same things earlier that day. That customer had left the bag of them inside a car while he went shopping. The crabs were dead 20 minutes later (high heat here). What could that sales employee do about it? Not a thing. It's her job to sell fish/crabs to anyone willing to hand over the cash. Even when she knows they're making bone-head decisions about compatibility and care.

That's very sad to me, simply put. I, too, feel it's counterproductive to angrily complain to store managers concerning the living conditions of the fish they sell. What I have encountered is that managers at most of these pet stores are aware of the problems, but struggle to achieve a resolution, as there is a high turnover rate with their employees being hired/fired. These stores are controlled by district managers, who are controlled by their bosses from corporate. It is almost never up to individual stores to choose their planograms (where fish are placed), the methods used to maintain the tanks and take care of the ill fish and so on.
I'm not suggesting that consumers turn the other cheek completely; I have occasionally given tips to store employees after hearing them give bad advice to customers. It also doesn't hurt to speak to managers for your own piece of mind, to make sure they are aware of the conditions of the store.

I still tend to hold consumers responsible for whatever they're buying, whether it be live animals, electronics, etc. IMO, one cannot expect to believe every piece of information they hear and trust all advice that is given. I research everything that is important to me before delving into it, and apparently not everyone is like that. I even research houseplants that I see in a store before buying them, so I know I'll be giving them good care, and not wasting my hard-earned money.
Years ago when I started my first real aquarium, I did listen to pet store associates for instructions on keeping fish, and that aquarium failed miserably. This was a lesson for me to in the future ask many questions to many different people, and to not settle for one way of accomplishing something. I give a pass to young people/kids more willingly than I do to adults when it comes to being naive, misinformed and accepting of the way things are initially presented. Older adults always go on about having so much experience and living in the real world and yadda yadda, so shouldn't they know better not to trust any old advice and to really search for the info they're seeking? I would think so...
 
Last edited:
thats why you dont go by the info at petstores. just ask on here and you will get what you need to know. than go there and make your purchases.
 
It's not the people who lack knowledge that I take issue with, it's those that don't care to learn about the animals they're caring for and how to properly do so. Flipping out on them of course does no good, and it's generally more productive to politely offer a contrary stance if you feel their information is misguided. . . . .

On the other end, (and I am guilty too), is rather than researching, the forums are abused as a source of information. However, I ask here to see if this is something I want to get into or is it something that I am better off staying away from. I don't buy a fish and then try to figure out what it is and what to do with it. Too often I have seen that occur here and there is no way to prevent this from occurring. The misinformation offered comes from not only the inexperienced but the experienced as well. Point is - we all make mistakes either from ignorance or stupidity and even vanity. Nor is there any way to prevent someone from making a purchase only to find out they are in over their head. Let's face it, we're human and we screw up. Personally, I have gotten tired of the rants over the box stores and would just as soon never hear another "story".

FWIW - I think post counts should be eliminated and let your reputation precede you. There are some members with ridiculous post counts and yet they are the last person I would go to for assistance.
 
Thank you Mgamer.

we all know that certain stores can be bad. we have all had experiences where the LFS's are just as good, too.

so every time you see a couple of dead fish, or a BGK in a 10 gallon, you dont need to make an, "OMG LOOK AT WHAT MY LFS DID" thread. LFS's can be expected to give the fish they have in their stores exactly what each species needs. it wouldnt be fiscally plausible for the store, since most fish are rarely in the store for more than a few weeks. actually, i would rather see a store with barebottom tanks and perhaps a terra cotta pot (QT-style tanks). it makes it easier to follow the fish and make sure that they are healthy, and barebottom, minimal-decor tanks are easier to clean than show tanks. plus, it makes it easier for the employees to catch the fish YOU want without having to chase the fish around the tank for a long time.

then again, if people stop making them i'll run out of sources for quarters...

i will have to put my foot down about dyed fish though. we can't support the practice. still dont need threads though. we all know they are out there.
 
AquariaCentral.com