petition against the Flowerhorn

i accept natural hybridisation....but when, in the wild, would a blind cave fish come across another barb? it wouldnt happen...and by putting them together to breed you are putting them under unnatural conditions...so that hybridisation is not natural.

im not here to complain...im just starting a friendly petition against the unnatural creation of hybrid fish....in particular the flowerhorn.
 
Originally posted by O-man21
but the dogs are stull bred to AKC and other (British..other standards) standards that were made when the dogs were used for working, so they are still,technically, bred to work and for how they are built.
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The AKC may want you to believe that the dogs are bred to some 'working' standard, but they are not. My g/f is big on dogs, and I've collected a few tidbits...
"well-bred" German shepherds must wear booties when outside the show rink. To get the perfect stance in the hind legs, they have bred the tendons in the hind legs so short that they cannot properly pick up their hind feet. The booties are to keep them from scraping the skin off the top of their hind feet as they walk
"well bred" Bulldogs can no longer give natural birth. They have bred them to have such a huge chest and such narrow waists that breeders mate a male and female, wait several days to see if the pregnancy took, and (if the female is pregnant) schedule a c-section.
These dogs are also front-heavy! They usually wear a backpack over their hips outside the show rink to keep the hind end down so they can walk normally...
"well bred" Dachshunds wear a chest pad outside the show rink - their chest rubs the ground when they walk and they would scrape their hide off otherwise.
many "well bred" small breed dogs have been bred to have very buggy eyes, to the extent that the breeders put a drop of glue at the outside corners of their eyelids to hold their eyes partly shut - and prevent their eyes popping out!
Susan Shepherd (big time multiple winner of the Iditarod race) was given a "well bred" Husky, and said it was one of the most worthless dogs she had ever seen - comletley useless for sled pulling.
Also, many "well bred" AKC dogs are prone to all kinds of internal problems, and many have mental "issues" (excessive dumbness to agression) Yes, there are some good kennels that DO produce good dogs - you will usually find thet those kennels compete not only in AKC events, but also in working or herding dog competitions where the dog must be able to do the job it was bred to do.

Anyways, back to the Flowerhorn...
Thom, you seem to be morally opposed to the FH simply on the basis that it is a hybrid fish created by man. What is wrong with that? Simply breeding/crossing to create a new species if not unethical. What would make it unethical would be if the fish created posessed internal/external deformities, or just general "problems" that would make the fish unhappy or unhealthy in life. (such as the BP, which I AM generally opposed to)
Since no one has mentioned any defornities or "probems" with the FH cichlid, I am assuming that they have no such problems, so I don't see where there is anything wrong with breeding them.
 
what is the point of the flowerhorn? it is no better looking than the Trimac, grows to the same size, has the same temperament, so why breed it? (notice i say no better lookin but that does not mean it is identical). not enough is known about the flowerhorn at present to establish if it is of good health and if it doesnt have any internal problems. but fish have been put through stress and intense projects involving hormones to produce it - for absolutly nothin except possibly personal achievement and a lot of cash. these fish are produced for commercialism and money - that is not how we should go about as fishkeepers. we should not be allowed to pick and choose the best bits of fish we want and bring them out in one new fish. it is not natural, it is not what was intended - and more importantly there is a world of thousands possibly millions of different fish species out there, alot of which we have yet to discover. there is the perfect fish for every1 (except those that dont like fish), and hence no need to create anything new. you just have to look.
 
Originally posted by ChilDawg
BluEyes, man-made hybridizations of fish are not new species.
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Not nessacarily, but they could be.
If the hybrid fish are able to breed and create offspring, if the hybrid, and it's offspring show a preference to mate with other hybrids (or are even unable to mate with the parent species), and those offspring can then mate, and so-on, and the qualities of the hybrid breed true, then where is it NOT a new species?

Certainly, it would be rather similar to the parent species, but Swordtails and Platys are very similar and they both seperate species...
 
different. swordtails and platy are naturally different fish...they are not man-made hybrids. similarity does not mean the same. however, platy and swordtail can breed together quite easily...why does nature make things so difficult?? and why does man have to make it even more so??

hybrids do not have a scientific name, they do not have an origin, they can often not be bred true, and they do not qualtify as a species.

bottom line is...its hybrid. there are set rules which mean it cannot qualify.
 
I have a goldendoodle (golden retriever poodle mix) We love her dearly. She also will benefit from what is known as "hybrid vigor" A phenomenon in which the first generation of hybrid between two pure bred species is considerably stronger. Thus, she will live much longer, have fewer genetic flaws such as hip dysplasia and won't shed. Because of hybridization, There are tomatos I can grow in much colder temperatures and without so much risk of disease and pests. Hybridization is not a bad thing. In fact, the opposite. We know that too much in breeding causes an unusual proponderance of bad traits, as in the russian royalty who had almost 100% incidence of hemophilia. As long as the breeding is done responsibly, I have no problem with a new fish. The fish certainly doesn't know the difference. Releasing them is another issue all together. Julianna
 
Hmmm...each side has made great points, but which side do I take??? Neither side. I don't care how fish got to be the way it is, if I like it I will buy it. That is how most people today feel. Thom I understand that you do not want the fish to suffer from defects and deformaties, either do I. When I read earlier in this topic that Blood Parrots have swim bladder deformaties, I thought that it is wrong to take two beautiful fish and breed them to make a fish that will not survive or will be in pain. Most people think that fish don't feel pain because they can't express it like humans and other land animals(mammals and birds) can. If a dog is hurt then it will while. If a bird is hurt it will chirp and hiss. Fish can't do this so. I feel sorry for my fish when they are sick. When they die I also feel disappointed, both because they died and because I did something or didn't do something to cause them to die. There are people who think that this isn't bad, let them think that. You think it is bad and that's all that is important. It's great to want to inform people but do it a different way. Instead of trying to start a petition you should have linked a website with the info on it and let people decide for themselves where they stand on this topic.
 
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