pH 7.8!!

cichlid woman - for what its worth, im in central indiana(not too far from you) and my water parameters are almost identical to yours(KH and GH especially). i havent/noticed too many problems with my fish under these conditions. the main thing ive tried to do is maintain consistancy in the tank.
 
Sensei, when you do the half-and-half thing, does the water STAY at the new (lower) pH, or does it all go back up again after a few days in the tank? Maybe that's something I could try ... it's just about the only thing I haven't tried.

Due to my desire to grow plants that do not do well over pH 7.4, breed Blue Rams, and keep all my community fish happy, I've been trying to lower the pH on my 7.8 tank. Here's what I've tried recently:

1) DIY CO2 with a Pepsi bottle, yeast, hose, etc. Flopped miserably. It bubbled about five times the first evening and then nothing.

2) A Jungle "Fizz Factory." It works really well as far as it goes--over several days, my pH came down to 7.2, but only stayed there as long as I kept adding fizz tablets (I figured out that I'd need to use about 2 tablets a day, and a pack of 16 costs $7). And the large, plastic rectangle that sits inside the tank (CO2 holding tank and reactor--bell type) didn't do much for my tank's looks, either.

3) Sodium Biphosphate. An lfs owner with tapwater at 9.2 swears by this stuff, and says her tanks all hold at ph 7 without adding anything else to her water. I bought some and tried it. It did lower the pH, as long as I kept dosing, but now I've got slightly cloudy water because of suspended, undissolved mineral deposits or something resulting from the action of the Sodium Biphosphate. When I stopped dosing, the pH climbed again. (I called her back to ask about the cloudiness; she recommended I use a "Water Softening Pillow," a day on, a day off, and one more day on after each water change ... Aquarium Pharmaceutical sells both items, but I didn't buy the pillow. I gave up.)

Don't worry, all these changes (from 7.8 to 7.2 and back again) were done very slowly over a period of weeks, and no fish have suffered ill effects from what I can see. But, boy, am I discouraged.

The first time I measured my tank's KH, about a month ago when I began these adventures, I got a reading of 8. I measured it again a few days ago, and it was 12!! Arggghhhhhh.

I've got a 38-gal tank; lugging gallon jugs of distilled water is not an attractive prospect, but I'd do it if it would work. Would it work on a one-time basis, just to get my present tank where I want it? And then all I'd have to do is use whatever method I need on the new tap water for water changes later on?

I do NOT want to lug 7 or 8 gallons of water from the store every two weeks to do partial water changes. And I cannot afford injected CO2. But I do notice a difference in the fish's coloration, among other things, when they're in a pH of 7.2 or so as opposed to 7.8 or 8.0. You can see it especially on the black tetras--the silver/blue strip seems to be more ... er ... rusty looking or something on the blacks who have been in my tank longer. I could definitely see the difference when I put a few new ones in there with them, to bring the school up to nine.

I think the lower pH is good for the fish, although they do "okay" at a higher one. If there's any way to get my tank to 7.0 or thereabouts, I'd be one really happy camper. Does anybody have any suggestions? Sure would appreciate it.

-- Pat
 
wow! what a thread!

I have a 29G community tank and have GH & KH over 500 ppm, each. Yea, I test it every week. My PH is 8.2, with the tap water being 7.8, even after setting out. Granted I have hardy fish and the only reason I lost fish were to more aggressive fish.
 
Personally, I'd take another crack at the CO2. Try another yeast recipe, check for leaks in the setup. It seems like an ideal solution for a planted tank where you'd like to drop the pH on permanent and stable basis. I'm in the middle of setting one up, but a lot of people seem to have had success with it.

The distilled/RO option is just dilution. Distilled or RO water will have a KH of zero. X parts distilled mixed with X parts tap will give you a lower KH. When you add more tap you'll start to push the KH back up, unless you keep up with the distilled water. The effort and expense seem up there to me, but it should work fine.
 
I agree with WetmanNY that the data (KH of 3, pH of 7.8) don't appear to add up. If you want recommendations that will actually have a chance of improving the situation instead of making it worse, you are going to have to buy a test kit and do the Full Monty (GH, KH, pH), fresh out of the tap, sitting in a container for a day, and in your established tank. Tetra makes a test kit that is pretty inexpensive (especially when purchased on-line), so I suggest you get that and then get back to us.
 
Harry, the KH is 12, up from 8 a month ago (not "3").

I have all the test kits you recommended; results are already posted on this thread. If it would help, I can do tests of the three areas you mention: right out of the tap, after sitting for a day, and tank. What's the rationale for doing the test right out of the tap? Can you explain for me, please?

-- Pat
 
Okay, here are those test results (I just completed them, using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid test kits for all tests):

RIGHT OUT OF THE TAP:
pH 7.0
KH: 18
GH: 31
ammonia (as long as I had the test kits out ...): 0

TANK WATER:
pH 7.8
KH: 12
GH 23
ammonia: 0

I've got a beaker sitting with tap water right now, which I will test tomorrow (is letting it sit for one day enough time?)

Does anyone understand what these numbers may mean, or do we need to wait for the third test on the aged tapwater?

Thanks!!

-- Pat
 
I feel compelled to note that when I made my last post in this thread, I thought I was posting immediately after wetmanNY's comments about KH and pH (way back on page 1). How I missed the other two pages of commentary I cannot even begin to guess, unless it was another alien abduction episode (I hate it when they do that!). Sorry for the confusion that may have caused.

Thanks for posting your test results. Tomorrow let's see what the standing tap water results show.

P.S. The "Fizz Factory" tablets can be had for about $4.10/pack of 16 when purchased on-line. You should only need about 4 tablets a week to keep your pH in line according to their system specs. Perhaps a combination of R/O water and this would work for you (it would also help with plant growth, which might allow you to hide the unit behind some plants).
 
Originally posted by Cichlid Woman
Sensei, when you do the half-and-half thing, does the water STAY at the new (lower) pH, or does it all go back up again after a few days in the tank? Maybe that's something I could try ... it's just about the only thing I haven't tried.

Cichlid Woman, my pH seems to stay fairly constant in the 7.0 - 7.2 range. I only have a 10 gal tank and do a 20% change every week. Distilled or OR water are both less than 60 cents/gal at Walmart, so 1 gal distilled mixed with 1 gal tap is neither a financial nor physical burden. I also have no live plants, and my livestock consist of 2 black mollies, 1 platy, 1 swordtail, 1 neon, 1 cory aeneus, 1 china butterfly loach and 1 dojo loach.

Hoping to move up to a 55 gal this year, not sure what I'll do then regarding pH.

Best regards,
 
AquariaCentral.com