pH Issues

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kwl718

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Feb 2, 2007
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OK, I finished fishless cycling a 15 gallon for my four year old son tank last week. Story of that is elsewhere here, but it was ultimately successful after 5 weeks.

So, yesterday, my son and I went to a LFS to get some fish. He really wanted Glofish (those transgenic zebra danios), so that's what we got...two of them to start with.

Anyway, the pH in my tank is 7.8, it stayed that way through the whole fishless cycle. kH is 120ppm, or about 7 dH. Now, I'd read here and elsewhere NOT to mess with pH. The owner of the LFS, however, was absolutely adamant that I had to lower mine, he keeps his tanks at 6.5 and I confirmed this with my own test. So, I got some Ph decreaser and lowered mine to about 6.6. I spent about 1.5 hours acclimating the two danios to the new tank (mixing 1/4 cup of tank water with the bag water and removing more and more LFS water). Fish went in the tank and all seemed OK.

I didn't realize, until I started reading more stuff today, that my water has pretty decent buffering capacity and that ph decreasers wouldn't keep it down long...lo and behold, when I came home from work, the pH in the tank was right back up to 7.8. OK, I'm NOT going to mess with it anymore! That's where it wants to be, apparently.

So, two questions:

1) how much damage did I, stupidly, do to these poor little danios by having the pH go from 6.6 to 7.8 in about 24 hours? They look great right now, very active and all over the tank. What should I look for in terms of problems from this pH swing?

2) are zebra danios OK in a pH of 7.8? I take it they'd ideally like it somewhat lower, but I know many fish can be tolerant of variation. Are they one of them? I get different answers about the right pH for them everywhere I look.

3) In the future, can I buy fish from that store? They are the only one that carries the GloFish that my son wants. I'd ignore is Ph lowering advice, but can I really successfully acclimate fish to such a big difference (6.5 to 7.8)? Or, should I find a store that keeps a higher pH and just convince the little guy to settle for whatever they carry?

Thanks for the help!! I was patient enough and withstood the LFS misinformation enough to complete my fishless cycle properly and after all that work, messed up right from the get go :(.
 
The owner of the LFS, however, was absolutely adamant that I had to lower mine
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oh if only the people at LFS's knew how to find their hand at the end of their arm. it never ceases to amaze, how little they know about the fish they sell.

fortunately, danios are a very hardy species. if you don't see any behavioural indications of pH shock, i'd not worry. you 'may' not be so lucky next time around. which brings us to your next question. can you buy fish from this guy in the future? if the fish are less than very hardy, i'd be hesitant and then only if they come with a 'bring 'em back if they die' policy.
 
Thanks! Hopefully these guys will be OK. If we go back for more GloFish, would a slow drip acclimatization be enough account for to account for the pH difference? Or, do I just give up and find other fish at another store...one in my actual town (this guy is two towns over) might have the same weird (soft, but high Ph) water that I've get from the water department.

I was also a bit annoyed because he refused to sell me more than 2...I understand that they like to be in schools of at least five. No matter how many times I explained to him that I'd done a fishless cycle and that the tank has been successfully removing 2ppm of ammonia every day for at least a week, he told me I couldn't have more because I'd have ammonia problems. There is no way that five little danios make 2ppm of ammonia. I guess it's just as well, or more fish would have potentially been hurt the the pH swing.
 
kwl718 said:
Thanks! Hopefully these guys will be OK. If we go back for more GloFish, would a slow drip acclimatization be enough account for to account for the pH difference? Or, do I just give up and find other fish at another store...one in my actual town (this guy is two towns over) might have the same weird (soft, but high Ph) water that I've get from the water department.

I was also a bit annoyed because he refused to sell me more than 2...I understand that they like to be in schools of at least five. No matter how many times I explained to him that I'd done a fishless cycle and that the tank has been successfully removing 2ppm of ammonia every day for at least a week, he told me I couldn't have more because I'd have ammonia problems. There is no way that five little danios make 2ppm of ammonia. I guess it's just as well, or more fish would have potentially been hurt the the pH swing.
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sounds like just another fish store not knowing what they are talking about.

how does the saying go? the blind leading the blind.
 
zebra danios are tough as nails. they should be able to handle your pH as it is now.

it would be ok to buy fish from the store, just dont congregate with the LFS workers until you have chosen your fish- works for me every time.

thats odd... an LFS worker that will acctually refuse a sale because you may have "ammonia problems." usually they try to sell you 500 fish and then a bacterial additive and water clarifier to go with them, and smile as you stand in the checkout line and leave.

if they try to sell you something that you know you should not put in the tank (i.e algea killer, water clarifier), simply tell them that you are not going to buy that for you have no intrest. if you can convince your soon to look at other brightly colored fish (after you fill out the zebra school of course) like neons, try to find another LFS nearby

BTW, they must be adding the decreaser every day, because chances are their tap water pH isnt much different than yours, and so the pH is just on a rollercoaster ride all of the time. thats really bad for the fish.
 
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