Pictus Catfish just dropped dead
- Thread starter magakitty
- Start date
I don't know quite what to think. Hubby had the water tested at PetSmart this AM before her changed the water. He also tested it himself. PetSmart and his test agreed that the water was within "safe" parameters.
So... he got three replacement fish...
The ammonia was .5 and the nitrites below .25.
He did a 20% change with bottled water, added Cycle, water conditioner, and a tsp of aquarium salt (even though I told him you guys said don't do that with cats - but the fish lady told him it was okay because they put salt in all of their tanks) and tested the water. Ammonia was at .5 so he added ammonia remover (10ml). The PH read very low. Then another angel and one of the barbs died. Then one of the new barbs died.
I noticed right before the new barb died that he had white stringy stuff hanging from his fins. we bagged up the angel and the tiger barb, scooped up another water sample, and put the dead green barb and the other green barb (these are the new fish) in a plastic container and took them all back to PetSmart.
We did not get any new fish.
The fish lady there tried to tell me that within 18 hours the green barbs had developed fungus from our other fish - but they don't have any signs of fungus. She tested the water and said the Ph was high (our test showed low) and the ammonia was off the chart. We took a store credit and got a liquid nitrite test kit and a liquid ammonia test kit, a filter bag and some ammonia stones. They also gave us 10% off. Big woop - we have lost several of our finny friends and the others don't look good.
I asked how there could be such a big difference in the tests in just a matter of hours, or minutes in fact. She tried to sell me ph -, but I asked which test to trust, because mine said add ph +. She told me to bring my strips back and they would test them against theirs and maybe give us another store credit.
Got home and one of the gourami was dead, and the other is now dying. the two remaining tiger barbs are just hanging out at the top of the tank, the new angel (remember hubby got replacement fish) is doing the same. The two new cats are lively, but who knows for how long.
Tested the water with both strips and liquid when we got home.
ammonia - liquid test 1.0 - strip 3.0
nitrite - liquid test .25 - strip <.25
How did the ammonia raise so high in just a matter of a hour or two, or at the longest, from this AM to this afternoon?
We both are depressed over this, and are basically waiting for the rest of them to die. We added more ammonia remover, but I don't think that it is working, and the quarantine tank is spiking with nitrites right now so we can't put them in there.
We were promised that Cycle would keep the tanks from ever going above borderline safe.....
any advice? Do we just let them all die and start over once the cycling has balanced the tank? We are heartbroken......
So... he got three replacement fish...
The ammonia was .5 and the nitrites below .25.
He did a 20% change with bottled water, added Cycle, water conditioner, and a tsp of aquarium salt (even though I told him you guys said don't do that with cats - but the fish lady told him it was okay because they put salt in all of their tanks) and tested the water. Ammonia was at .5 so he added ammonia remover (10ml). The PH read very low. Then another angel and one of the barbs died. Then one of the new barbs died.
I noticed right before the new barb died that he had white stringy stuff hanging from his fins. we bagged up the angel and the tiger barb, scooped up another water sample, and put the dead green barb and the other green barb (these are the new fish) in a plastic container and took them all back to PetSmart.
We did not get any new fish.
The fish lady there tried to tell me that within 18 hours the green barbs had developed fungus from our other fish - but they don't have any signs of fungus. She tested the water and said the Ph was high (our test showed low) and the ammonia was off the chart. We took a store credit and got a liquid nitrite test kit and a liquid ammonia test kit, a filter bag and some ammonia stones. They also gave us 10% off. Big woop - we have lost several of our finny friends and the others don't look good.
I asked how there could be such a big difference in the tests in just a matter of hours, or minutes in fact. She tried to sell me ph -, but I asked which test to trust, because mine said add ph +. She told me to bring my strips back and they would test them against theirs and maybe give us another store credit.
Got home and one of the gourami was dead, and the other is now dying. the two remaining tiger barbs are just hanging out at the top of the tank, the new angel (remember hubby got replacement fish) is doing the same. The two new cats are lively, but who knows for how long.
Tested the water with both strips and liquid when we got home.
ammonia - liquid test 1.0 - strip 3.0
nitrite - liquid test .25 - strip <.25
How did the ammonia raise so high in just a matter of a hour or two, or at the longest, from this AM to this afternoon?
We both are depressed over this, and are basically waiting for the rest of them to die. We added more ammonia remover, but I don't think that it is working, and the quarantine tank is spiking with nitrites right now so we can't put them in there.
We were promised that Cycle would keep the tanks from ever going above borderline safe.....
any advice? Do we just let them all die and start over once the cycling has balanced the tank? We are heartbroken......
I've heard some products that detoxify ammonia can also skew your test results and give you faulty and strange readings. Maybe your readings aren't quite correct. Have you looked up the symptoms of Ammonia/nitrite poisioning to see if your fish fit the bill? If not you may just have disease in the tank. Who knows.
What I do know is that you should definitely wait until your tank cycles before buying any new fish ...
Good Luck!
What I do know is that you should definitely wait until your tank cycles before buying any new fish ...
Good Luck!
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I just discovered that one of the few remaining fish (we lost the other gourami and the last angel appears to be dying) also has the white stringy fungus and a patch of cottony looking stuff on his side. there is white yuck floating in the water. Could this be Columnaris? I just read that this can wipe out an entire stock within hours. What causes this?
Ammonia and Nitrite are unsafe generally but especially above .25ppm
I would be more inclinded to trust your liquid test - again, these levels are too high
I think this was a really bad promise for someone to make to you - I used Cycle when I was cycling my tank with some old filter medium. It's supposed to boost the bacteria. However, I think a lot of people will question whether it actually does anything much for this, and I don't think it will do anything at all as regards excess ammonia/nitrite
I'm sorry; I don't know enough about the symptoms you're describing to say if there is a disease or pathogen of an absolutely terminal nature present in the tank, which would warrant breaking it down and starting again. All I can say is water changes never hurt; I would advise water change as opposed to adding products where your liquid test strips are showing ammonia or nitrite.
It's terrible that you're having such a hard time of it - but stay with it. Again, my sympathies
If I ever have a test indicate any ammonia or nitrites, it is water change time.
I do not use pH up or pH down. Your fish, in most all cases will adjust to a different pH and prefer stability vice it always having additives dumped in trying to achievesome "ideal".
I believe Cycle is a snake oil that will not help a tank start up. The best water conditioner for chlorine/chloramine removal, IMO, is Prime.
Why would you be using bottled water? Is there something specifically wrong with your tap water? What are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings on your tap water? Do you have a whole house water softener?
My best recommendation now is to feed lightly, do water changes as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrites at zero, with tap water and stop allthe additives except a chlorine/chloramine conditioner.
I do not use pH up or pH down. Your fish, in most all cases will adjust to a different pH and prefer stability vice it always having additives dumped in trying to achievesome "ideal".
I believe Cycle is a snake oil that will not help a tank start up. The best water conditioner for chlorine/chloramine removal, IMO, is Prime.
Why would you be using bottled water? Is there something specifically wrong with your tap water? What are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings on your tap water? Do you have a whole house water softener?
My best recommendation now is to feed lightly, do water changes as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrites at zero, with tap water and stop allthe additives except a chlorine/chloramine conditioner.
yes that could very well be your problem. What causes it is an infected fish gets introduced to your tank, or the water from the pet store had it and was introduced to your tank. It can be very contagious and spread to your other fish quickly.
I would treat the whole tank with an multi-purpose anti-biotic like Maracyn.
I agree w/ rBishop's post 110%
So, lets try and deal w/ one issue at a time here:
- NO more fish please (acclimation may have been an issue w/ the fish' swimming probs btw)
- Leave your pH as is--Just find out the LFS pH in their water. If there is a large gap (larger than 0.5), do a slow acclimation by add a little of your tank water in w/ the fish bag over a few hours.
- I would use tap water, unless there is a legitimate reason not to (Water chnages will get very expensive otherwise)
- Test for Ammonia and NitrItes 2x (or more) a day
- a) readings over 0.25 do an Immediate water change (If it's 0.5 a 50% water change (WC) should get you to around 0.25 - If it's higher more WCs will be required.
- Once your water is stabilized we can begin to treat for your illnesses. These are being introduced w/ your fish additions and allowed to infect your fish b/c of the stress they are under as a result of the poor water. (Some illnesses infect regardless)
Note: Ammonia over 0.5 for a day will kill most delicate fish. Ammonia in the 1-3 readings will kill within a day almost anything in your tank
I'm sorry if I'm coming off a bit rough, that's not my intent, but I want to ensure that you are doing the right things. A lot of told you to do an immediate WC. If in doubt, you will not harm your cycling process, so please do them
As for your infections, you are describing a lot of symptoms. Is it possible to get some pictures? If not here are a few links to take a look at. Help us ID them, and we will certainly do everything that we can to help you out!
This is the 1st one to visit (great images to help): http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#Bodyfungus (Check Ick, Swim bladder disease, and Velvet fungus to start with)
Here is another good source:
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Diseases1.htm
...and another...
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm (Provides a generic diagnostics based on symptoms and some treatments)
Also, please offer us your latest readings from your water (as best you can, I know the charts are hard to read).
Good Luck and keep us up to date - We can get you through this so you can have many many years of happiness ahead of you!
So, lets try and deal w/ one issue at a time here:
- NO more fish please (acclimation may have been an issue w/ the fish' swimming probs btw)
- Leave your pH as is--Just find out the LFS pH in their water. If there is a large gap (larger than 0.5), do a slow acclimation by add a little of your tank water in w/ the fish bag over a few hours.
- I would use tap water, unless there is a legitimate reason not to (Water chnages will get very expensive otherwise)
- Test for Ammonia and NitrItes 2x (or more) a day
- a) readings over 0.25 do an Immediate water change (If it's 0.5 a 50% water change (WC) should get you to around 0.25 - If it's higher more WCs will be required.
- Once your water is stabilized we can begin to treat for your illnesses. These are being introduced w/ your fish additions and allowed to infect your fish b/c of the stress they are under as a result of the poor water. (Some illnesses infect regardless)
Note: Ammonia over 0.5 for a day will kill most delicate fish. Ammonia in the 1-3 readings will kill within a day almost anything in your tank
I'm sorry if I'm coming off a bit rough, that's not my intent, but I want to ensure that you are doing the right things. A lot of told you to do an immediate WC. If in doubt, you will not harm your cycling process, so please do them
As for your infections, you are describing a lot of symptoms. Is it possible to get some pictures? If not here are a few links to take a look at. Help us ID them, and we will certainly do everything that we can to help you out!
This is the 1st one to visit (great images to help): http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#Bodyfungus (Check Ick, Swim bladder disease, and Velvet fungus to start with)
Here is another good source:
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Diseases1.htm
...and another...
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm (Provides a generic diagnostics based on symptoms and some treatments)
Also, please offer us your latest readings from your water (as best you can, I know the charts are hard to read).
Good Luck and keep us up to date - We can get you through this so you can have many many years of happiness ahead of you!
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Got up this morning and we have no fish left.
Now we want to know what to do now? Do we dump out all of the water, scrub down everything and start from scratch, or do we add anti-biotics and anti-fungals to the water so we don't have to start cycling from scratch? what about the gravel? if we have to scrub everything how do we thoroughly scrub 1/4' gravel? We have 25 lbs of it (2 1/2 - 3 Inches deep in tank) I thoroughly researched the disease colomnaris yesterday and no where does it say want to do if you lose all of your fish before you figure out whats worng and treat it.
I really appreciate all of your information. and don't worry about hurting my feeling by telling me I did it all wrong, this is how I learn, by people telling me where I made my mistakes.
We did two 20% water changes yesterday. I did a lot of research on columnaris yesterday, and the more I read the more convinced I am that that is what happened. there was the shimmying behavior, the white stringy and white cottony growth, the fin deterioration, etc. I also read that in particularly virulant strand of this bacteria this rapid, large scale loss happens.
what I figured was that one of the fishes we brought home was a carrier and the stressful conditions of the tank (water parameters, overcrowding, etc) stressed it to the point of releasing it, and infecting itself and the whole tank. None of the fish in the tank it came from seem to have the disease, but it was the first one to develope the white yuck, even though it was the 5-6 one to die {I think hubby gets it now that he can't put so many fish in the tank, even though he is planning on getting a bigger tank very soon}
So, how do we treat the tank, and for how long. If we do have to start completely over, how long do we let it cycle, do we do it without any added bacteria (we can't get biospira locally), etc? will plants help? Any info will help -and be very appreciated.
thank you very much for your help, knowledge, and expertise. i'm glad I found this site.
Kitty and Steve (in mourning)
Now we want to know what to do now? Do we dump out all of the water, scrub down everything and start from scratch, or do we add anti-biotics and anti-fungals to the water so we don't have to start cycling from scratch? what about the gravel? if we have to scrub everything how do we thoroughly scrub 1/4' gravel? We have 25 lbs of it (2 1/2 - 3 Inches deep in tank) I thoroughly researched the disease colomnaris yesterday and no where does it say want to do if you lose all of your fish before you figure out whats worng and treat it.
I really appreciate all of your information. and don't worry about hurting my feeling by telling me I did it all wrong, this is how I learn, by people telling me where I made my mistakes.
We did two 20% water changes yesterday. I did a lot of research on columnaris yesterday, and the more I read the more convinced I am that that is what happened. there was the shimmying behavior, the white stringy and white cottony growth, the fin deterioration, etc. I also read that in particularly virulant strand of this bacteria this rapid, large scale loss happens.
what I figured was that one of the fishes we brought home was a carrier and the stressful conditions of the tank (water parameters, overcrowding, etc) stressed it to the point of releasing it, and infecting itself and the whole tank. None of the fish in the tank it came from seem to have the disease, but it was the first one to develope the white yuck, even though it was the 5-6 one to die {I think hubby gets it now that he can't put so many fish in the tank, even though he is planning on getting a bigger tank very soon}
So, how do we treat the tank, and for how long. If we do have to start completely over, how long do we let it cycle, do we do it without any added bacteria (we can't get biospira locally), etc? will plants help? Any info will help -and be very appreciated.
thank you very much for your help, knowledge, and expertise. i'm glad I found this site.
Kitty and Steve (in mourning)
