Plants are struggling!

S

Sumpin'fishy

Humble Disciple of Jesus Christ
Oct 16, 2002
673
0
0
50
Savannah, GA
I have been trying to recover from having my plants (mostly crypts) melt and lose leaves/stems. I had added too much crushed coral to my tank about a week and a half ago, and it rose my KH fairly rapidly from 2.9 to 5.4 in two days. I also added (at the same) what I thought was KNO3, but was "Greenlight Cut Vine and Stump Killer", not "Greenlight Stump Remover" like I wanted! It turns out the stuff I got is a herbicide! Man I dosed for about a week with this stuff, which incidently DID raise the nitrate....LOL. This wrong stuff comes in a red liquid form in a plastic bottle, so DON'T get it. Use the powdered "stump remover". I finally got the right stuff, though.

Anyways, my plants have since melted and lost many of their stems and leaves. This happened to all my Crypts, but also affected some of my other plants. I'm not sure whether it was the herbicide, the KH, both, or something else like nutrient defficiencies, but I'm trying to find out.

I have a 20 gallon with DIY CO2 (16.2ppm -mornings/ 6.2 yesterday evening) so I could use another CO2 cannister I believe. I'm using Hagen's DIY plant system, btw. I have just upgraded from 40w to 70w (added 2x 15w screw in CFL lights -6500K). So even if they do waste a bit of light (reflecting into themselves and out the back of the canopy) I should still have about 3w/gal. I have been adding ferts for 2 weeks, and dosing as follows for the last week (fist week was adding herbicide!):

Flourish: 2mL 2x/wk (Tom Barr says most of us underdose traces)
Flour. Iron: 5mL 3x/wk (~8ppm)
Flour. Pot: 40mL 1/wk (~20ppm)*change to "NoSalt" when empty*
**NoSalt (KCl): 1/4tsp 1/wk (~20ppm)
Enema (P): 10 drops 3/wk (~1.0ppm)* read below *
Spectracide (KNO3): 1/4tps 2-3/wk (~10ppm)
Epsom Salt (Mg): 1/4tsp 2/wk
Crushed Coral (KH): have 1tsp running in filter (5.1 KH)
Substrate: Flourite Red mixed 50/50 with Quickcrete Sand (med.)

I did two 60% water changes after dosing the herbicide and then dosed the ferts as above. I have been noticing the stems of many of my plants getting soft and mushy. They end up rotting away and the whole stem floats around the tank until I discard. The top parts of my Micranthemum umbrosum look OK, although recovering from melting, but the bottoms where it connects to the substrate is rotting out from under it! It's hard to tell where the rotting begins and ends along the stems. I don't know if I can save the tops or not. Will the rotting spread up the stalks if I don't cut them now? Should I wait and see where it will stop first? I just haven't heard any experiences like this online, so I need some quick help!

Also a few of my Sword leaves look crumpled, as if I had wadded up a piece of paper and then unwrapped it again. They aren't growing strait up either, but in weird directions. They are even folding over on themselves. Some of the leaves look beautiful and bright green though! My Egeria densa has seemed to grow well and continues, but the stems are brittle and break off easily. I did a water change and a few of the stems broke in several places.

I did a bleach dip (blue-green algae) on my Anubias at the same time as all this was happening, and the older leaves rotted off, and it seems very thin and pale where the remaining leaves connect to the rhizome. Think it will die? I did a 2 minute 1/19 bleach solution and rubbed as much of the bacteria (algae) off as possible. The rest of the tank has been doing great with algae since I've been dosing ferts, though.

I know this is long, but I figured you needed details to answer. I also have quite a few questions listed above. Another one is how long does it take (general estimation) for melted crypts and plants to come back around after melting? I've already stabilized the KH and water chemistry.

Thanks for your time!
 
Oh, almost forgot to mention that I seem to be sucking up some serious phosphate in this tank. I dose to between .5 to 1.0ppm P, and by the next day it's almost completely undetectable. It might stay at .2 in a day, but isn't this STILL a bit fast? My Fe drops from around .7 to .8 to below .4 in one day.

Is this maybe just my plants trying to stock up on nutrients they have been without until lately? My Nitrates have barely changed at all. Dosed to around 10ppm and day 3 they are somewhere between 5 and 10 still. I do understand that my fish are adding to this, mind you.
 
bump.......need advice or ideas.......some of my plants have lost every single stem!
 
I am far from experienced enough to aid you but it just seems like adding herbicide explains it all. I will be watching this thread since my plants are all browning too. I just began adding Flourish, Flourish Iron and macros, so hopefully I am not too late.
 
Fishy, I may be wrong and hopefully someone else will respond with a different feeling about this. I can't see your tank and plants from here to judge their condition, but my gut tells me that you've probably got a lot of residual herbicide in your substrate that even many more thorough water changes won't dilute to the point where it ceases to have a negative affect on your plants.

If I was in your situation I would take all the plants out and wash them several times in clean, fresh water. At the same time I would empty the tank, rewash all the substrate and scrub the tank clean. And start over with a clean system from scratch.

I wouldn't suggest this if I wouldn't absolutely do it myself in the circumstances you describe. Herbicides and other pollutants are very difficult to eradicate, and I myself would rather tear the tank down than spend weeks, or months butting my head against a situation that wasn't improving.
Just my unhappy opinion.....
Hope someone else chimes in with a better prognosis.
Len
 
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Sounds like a good idea to me too. Of course depending on how many fish you have, you may have a big job on your hands. Do you have another tank you could put your filter on while you clean this one up? That would help keep the bacteria from dying off.
 
Thanks for all the input, but I've cut the dead/rotting parts off, and replanted any stems that looked salvageable. I'm going to try to get through this without tearing it down.

Man, it's funny but I always start things off having to fight from the bottom. I tried to study up for months, had plenty of research, understood, bought the right stuff, and built whatever else I needed, then I did one small thing wrong! Heh, now I have to fight an uphill battle again, learning what not to do.

It may sound retarded, but I seem to learn more in my life by learning what NOT to do. I placed the wrong type of fish together and did a few other things wrong when I first got started with fish. This forced me to do plenty of research to fix the problem, and I learned tons of info about fish! I love the challenge, regardless, so this won't affect my hobby in the least, except to improve my skills!

Fish are doing fine, even the Ghost Shrimp and Ottos, and some of my plants are sending up new shoots. I'm gonna ride it out. I only added 1/4 tsp twice for that week. I know any little bit can do harm, but I did two 60% water changes and I'm gonna ride on that for now. BTW, I have Flourite Red mixed 50/50 with medium sized sand, so hopefully it didn't penetrate too deeply into the substrate to affect things for long.
 
Don't get down on your self. We all make mistakes. This one was an honest one, done with the best of intentions.
If you're going to "ride it out" try doing atleast one more big water change and spend as much of that change gravel siphoning as deep and as thoroughly as possible.
I really hope it works out for you......keep us posted.
Len
 
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