Plants under siege!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Firemouth]

I have a 120g planted tetra and dwarf cichlid tank. There are 135 fish and these plants:
HYGROPHYLIA POLYSPERMA
JAVA FERN
ORIENTAL SWORD(TROPICANA)
HYGRO DIFFORMIS
A STEM PLANT CALLED CHERRY STEM
RED LUDWIGIA
ALENTHERA RENIEKII
MONEYWORT
DWARF PYGMY CHAIN SWORDS

The substrate is flourite and is 2.5" thick. The system is co2 injected and is 7 years old. 2 years ago I upgraded from incadescant plant bulbs to pc. I used custom sealife lamps(2-48" w/50/50 65watt) total watts 260. Last month I changed the lamps for the first time to 6500K bulbs all at once. Proir to this my plants maxed my tank out every 2 weeks with great healthy growth. After the lamps were installed the growth slowed and the leaves curled up and began to pitt and the stems began to disentigrate. I dosed iron and potassium and the plants look better but the growth is still slow. My Ph is 6.8 and GH is 156ppm. There has not been a detectable nitrate level since 2001. I have no algea problems except that one piece of driftwood has had brush/beard algea on it for the last 6 years. This algea does not spread and is not a problem. All of my fish are healthy and feed heavily on a variety of foods. Why did the bulbs change so much so drastically? Do I need to continually dose Iron, Potassium, Calcium, and possibly Nitrates. I have a 75g Firemouth tank that is heavily feed and has nitrates below 20ppm. Iexchangeroughly 65g of this tank water to the planted tank every 2 weeks. 12 Hours later there is no detectable nitrate in the 120g tank. What do people think is my best strategy for vigourous plant growth over the next 6 months and how should I proceed? My test kits are RED SEA IRON AND CO2. The test kit never produced a reading of iron even after 30 days of dosing. I assume I had a bad kit. I use potassium chloride and seachems florish iron and leaf zone supplements. thanx.

 

[happychem]

At a glance, I'd say you're not dosing enough. With the increased light (they probably don't get much from the actinic part of the 50/50), metabolism increased and the plants are really crying out for nutrients.

Try to maintain an NO3 level of about 10ppm and a PO4 level of about 1ppm. If you dose KNO3 and KH2PO4 as NO3 and PO4 sources, you should not need to dose K unless you're heavily stocked.

I just re-read and I'd say that you're probably pretty heavily stocked so your plants could probably benefit from the addition of KCl as well.

What are the CO2 levels in your tank?

Don't be surprised that the iron kit didn't measure anything. Your plants want Fe in the Fe(II) (2+) form, but this spotaneously oxidizes to Fe(III) (3+) in oxygenated waters (and air). So the iron is chelated to help stabilize the 2+ form. However this still degrades with time, plus your plants are taking it up.

 

[Robert H]

Tropicana is orange juice, Tropica is the plant company. Tropica plants are not allowed in the USA, so most likely your Ozelot sword came from Florida Aquatic Nurseries.

What is your C02 level? Do you know how much c02 is in your tank? I agree, with the increased light level you may need higher levels of c02 and nutrients.

There has not been a detectable nitrate level since 2001.

Well there is one problem.

 

[REDZPONY]

I have a 120g planted tetra and dwarf cichlid tank. There are 135 fish and these plants:

Does that say 135 fish in a 120G?

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

Answering some questions. C02 is at 15ppm with red sea test kit. Leaf size is good and plants pearl so I think c02 is o.k. Color in all my red plants increased dramatically after new bulbs so I would say metabolism in plants is high. I have no idea what brands to use for nitrate and phosphate supplements. I am going to add calcium chloride from seachem for the twisting leaf thing. The leaves are wavy on the edges and they should be straight.
The c02 will not go higher because this tank was once a reef ready salt system so the overflow dispels some c02. It is a pressurized c02 system though.
I do have 135 fish in the tank. I have :
25 rummynoses
50 neons
10 lemon tetras
25 glowlite tetras
10 cherry barbs(6 are juveniles that survived spawning in thick java fern plants)
1 betta splendins(combtail)
2 ottos
2 sae
2 ruby rams(altinspinosa?)
2 wonder killies(pair)
2 bushy nose dwarf plecs(beautiful)
and the rest are assorted cories
There may actually be a few more because the cats are hard to count with all the plants.
I believe my water quality is awesome because of the plants and regular maintenance and the fact that I have cherry barb fry. Again this is only because of the amount of plants that cover the substrate. There is probably only 8 inches of substrate visible.
I have alot of experience keeping fish/corals/and breeding however my plant experience is limited in proper dosing of supplements for optimum plant growth. I wish I had my new computer system with digital photos but that won't be until this summer. I really would love to share the photos of my tanks so you could all see them. The 120 looks great and is healthy but I strive for the best conditions and I know from experience that these plants have not reached thier full potential.
I used to own my own aquarium maintenance company between 89-92 so I still have friends in the industry that cut me deals on wholesale prices so stocking tanks isn't so bad.
I am building the stand for 2 more 120g tanks. These will be 60" x 24" x 18" and will be stacked on top of each other. They will both be planted and one tank will be all barbs and loaches. The other will be livebearers/killies/and rainbows. Once these 2 systems stabilize they will have dense bioloads like they 120 show I have now. So I really need to understand the dosing of the plants better and soon. Thanks.

 

[happychem]

check out www.gregwatson.com for supplements
download the planted tank nutrient calculator from www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Your dosing goal should be to maintain a NO3 concentration of about 10ppm and a PO4 concentration of 1ppm.

Once you have your supplements here's an example of how I might dose:
Sunday: 50% water change: add enough KNO3 and KH2PO4 to tank according to calculator to add 10ppm of NO3 and 1ppm of PO4

Monday: Dose traces, prepare a solution of 2tbsp. CSM+B in 250mL water. Add 10-20mL. Dose any CaCl2 and MgSO4 needed.

Tuesday: Add enough KNO3 and KH2PO4 to increase NO3 and PO4 by 5ppm and 0.5ppm, respectively. Alternatively, test NO3 concentration and add enough to bring NO3 to 10ppm and increase PO4 by a proportionate amount keeping with a 10:1 N ratio

Wed: repeat Monday

Thurs: repeat Tues.

Fri: repeat Wed.

Sat: repeat Tues

Sunday: 50% water change/prune/clean, etc. start over.

But then it's a lot easier to run an algae free planted tank with fewer fish than your current stocking load, so that might throw a wrench into the system. I'd also be trying to find some way to dampen the overflow so that I could get CO2 up to 25ppm.