Possible case of ich in planted tank with shrimps

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Schleo

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Feb 22, 2020
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Pic of the white spots you suspect are ich? Might not even be ich.....

When were the fish added and have you added anything new lately? Last 2 weeks?

Best to try and diagnose a probable issue before treating with meds. The wrong ones can cause more damage.
The pic is attached below, as you can see one is healthy and the other's body is getting deformed slowly and has white patches on the head. Sorry the pic isnt clearer since they don't exactly wait in one spot.

The fish were added about a month ago, no problems until two weeks back. The only thing i can think of is that i added a shower filter and used that water since it's suppsed to get rid of most water contaminants (not all, but atleast whatever large particles). Will do a water change with normal tap water (treated with prime and stress guard) to see if it helps.

20200325_081225.jpg
 

angelcraze

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Mar 21, 2020
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The pic is attached below, as you can see one is healthy and the other's body is getting deformed slowly and has white patches on the head. Sorry the pic isnt clearer since they don't exactly wait in one spot.

The fish were added about a month ago, no problems until two weeks back. The only thing i can think of is that i added a shower filter and used that water since it's suppsed to get rid of most water contaminants (not all, but atleast whatever large particles). Will do a water change with normal tap water (treated with prime and stress guard) to see if it helps.

View attachment 225576
I can't see ich, but I see a whitish patch on his head. He looks deformed because he is clamping his fins and when they aren't feeling well they get that weak looking stance.

I would hold off on the ich meds. If one fish has ich, they all do. Looks like most of them still look ok.

I'm thinking it's bacterial for the one with clamped fins. Particularly columnaris. Since you've had the fish for a month and it's slowly deteriorating, it's not a very virulent strain of Columnaris. FYI there are at least 4 strains. Some are extremely fatal, others not so much.

I think I would remove the sick fish and treat in a container to prevent spead in the main tank. Do you happen to have Paraguard? When I brought home some rummynose with Columnaris, I dosed Paraguard in the main tank and none of my own fish got it.

For the really sick fish, they went into a hospital tank, but I didn't end up saving them :( Also FYI, the columnaris strain I had was deadly bc I was losing two or three fish a night. But as I mentioned, none of my own fish got sick and 17 of the rummies were saved.

Here is my reference for treatment

There are a few ways to treat it, and I don't have access to antibiotics, but if you choose that route, make sure to have a synergistic effect like the one between kanamycin and Furanol. If you can find AAP Spectrogram, that is the best combo and pharmacy quality dose of Furan and Kanamycin, but I have no idea if it's still available.

Also btw, Columnaris is sticky aerobic.
 
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Amazoniantanklvr

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I agree with angel that it looks like Columnaris. Almost like saddle back Columnaris. NoodleCats NoodleCats has had it.
 

NoodleCats

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It does look like columnaris. There are antibiotics that have proven to help with the bacteria (since columnaris is bacterial, not fungal) but i cant say for sure what ones as I don't have access to medications in my country.

Ive only had one fish survive it, and that's my male betta. All i did was lots of water changes and got lucky he recovered on his own.


Theres some evidence salt helps fight it, but some fish are sensitive to salt (cories) and it can cause some plants to melt, so isnt advisable in a planted tank.
 
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Schleo

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Feb 22, 2020
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I can't see ich, but I see a whitish patch on his head. He looks deformed because he is clamping his fins and when they aren't feeling well they get that weak looking stance.

I would hold off on the ich meds. If one fish has ich, they all do. Looks like most of them still look ok.

I'm thinking it's bacterial for the one with clamped fins. Particularly columnaris. Since you've had the fish for a month and it's slowly deteriorating, it's not a very virulent strain of Columnaris. FYI there are at least 4 strains. Some are extremely fatal, others not so much.

I think I would remove the sick fish and treat in a container to prevent spead in the main tank. Do you happen to have Paraguard? When I brought home some rummynose with Columnaris, I dosed Paraguard in the main tank and none of my own fish got it.

For the really sick fish, they went into a hospital tank, but I didn't end up saving them :( Also FYI, the columnaris strain I had was deadly bc I was losing two or three fish a night. But as I mentioned, none of my own fish got sick and 17 of the rummies were saved.

Here is my reference for treatment

There are a few ways to treat it, and I don't have access to antibiotics, but if you choose that route, make sure to have a synergistic effect like the one between kanamycin and Furanol. If you can find AAP Spectrogram, that is the best combo and pharmacy quality dose of Furan and Kanamycin, but I have no idea if it's still available.

Also btw, Columnaris is sticky aerobic.
Oh god i absolutely agree! I just saw the article that it is stress based. The only fish that seem to be getting this are the female galaxy rasboras. The males are driving all the females crazy chasing them around, totally makes sense now.

The problem is im in the UAE not the US, AAP is not available here. Is there some sort of generic variant available at a pharamacy? Is it possible to dose the whole tank to be safe? And what would be the advised dosage?

Thanks.
 

Schleo

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Feb 22, 2020
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Ok so clearly furans is not shrimp safe. I will try to separate the infected rasboras (if i can catch those speedy devils) and treat them with kanamycin and furans. But would you advise a dose of kanamycin in the main tank to stop any residual bacteria?.
 

angelcraze

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Mar 21, 2020
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Ok so clearly furans is not shrimp safe. I will try to separate the infected rasboras (if i can catch those speedy devils) and treat them with kanamycin and furans. But would you advise a dose of kanamycin in the main tank to stop any residual bacteria?.
Personally I never treat the main tank with antibiotics. (FYI I can't use antibiotics at all anymore) but definitely not in the main tank because repeated doses of antibiotics or dosing when they are not required creates resistance and then they won't work when you really need them. Also this
note that the combination of BOTH Kanamycin AND Nitrofurazone MUST be used for effect against true flavobacterium columnare infections, otherwise the minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) values of these medications individually is too low
So you'd need the Furan for an effective Columnaris treatment unfortunately.

For your main tank, I would use lots of fresh water changes, and keep the mulm in the substrate and filter to a minimum going forward. You'd be surprised how much a difference every other day (or daily) water changes can make. It could be it was brought in from the LFS (that's what happened to me). Yes, the fish who are the most stressed will fall ill first unfortunately. Also maybe columnaris came in with the galaxies.

Alternatively to antibiotics, you can use Methylene blue and salt or potassium permanganate. I've never used PP, but i'm currently treating 8 juvenile angelfish with mblue and salt against a different type of bacteria Aeromonas. But I lost two fish already and more than one have symptoms. But remember Mblue will destroy your cycle, so either you re-cycle the tank like i'm doing once treatment is over or use only in a hospital tank. I also took my plants and filter media out. Mblue may hurt plants and I'll have to boil the filter media before I attempt to reuse it. Just some extra info. If you decide to use Mblue and aquarium salt, I can give you the dosage.
 
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Schleo

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Feb 22, 2020
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Personally I never treat the main tank with antibiotics. (FYI I can't use antibiotics at all anymore) but definitely not in the main tank because repeated doses of antibiotics or dosing when they are not required creates resistance and then they won't work when you really need them. Also this

So you'd need the Furan for an effective Columnaris treatment unfortunately.

For your main tank, I would use lots of fresh water changes, and keep the mulm in the substrate and filter to a minimum going forward. You'd be surprised how much a difference every other day (or daily) water changes can make. It could be it was brought in from the LFS (that's what happened to me). Yes, the fish who are the most stressed will fall ill first unfortunately. Also maybe columnaris came in with the galaxies.

Alternatively to antibiotics, you can use Methylene blue and salt or potassium permanganate. I've never used PP, but i'm currently treating 8 juvenile angelfish with mblue and salt against a different type of bacteria Aeromonas. But I lost two fish already and more than one have symptoms. But remember Mblue will destroy your cycle, so either you re-cycle the tank like i'm doing once treatment is over or use only in a hospital tank. I also took my plants and filter media out. Mblue may hurt plants and I'll have to boil the filter media before I attempt to reuse it. Just some extra info. If you decide to use Mblue and aquarium salt, I can give you the dosage.
So, both furan and kanamycin are available but cannot be dispensed without a prescription so that option is out.

I tried starting a slat bath. But now i have a bigger problem, the galaxies are so damn fast there's no way i can catch them. I tired for 1 hour with 2 nets and no success.

So my only option is to do alternative water changes. Should I dose melafix at half strength? Will it help?.

Thanks.
 

angelcraze

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Mar 21, 2020
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As per my trusty source linked above:
Pimafix can aid as a natural "in-tank" treatment for VERY MILD cases of Flexibacteria in combination with lower temps, salt, improving stressors (including oxidative stress), and baths (I would NOT recommend it for more moderate to serious cases). Do not confuse Melafix with Pimafix, as Melafix is more of an antiseptic with no effect on Columnaris whatsoever!
Pimafix is sometimes effective for a broad range of mild bacterial and fungal infections that typically afflict fish and other aquatic animals (especially gram negative). Fish diseases that may be treated in accordance with this product include bacterial fish diseases, such as fin and tail rot, mouth fungus (often caused by the bacterium Flavobacterium Columnaris); fungal fish diseases (such as those caused by microorganisms of the genera Saprolegnia and Achyle) and the like.
I forgot columnaris bacteria likes high temps, so lowering the temp to the low side of what your fish require is helpful against columnaris.

FYI the good thing is if it's columnaris, it's a mild case.

You may also be able to use hydrogen peroxide, but i'd have to search for the treatment so let me know if you want it. We do what we can.
So my only option is to do alternative water changes. Should I dose melafix at half strength? Will it help?.
 

Schleo

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Original poster
Feb 22, 2020
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As per my trusty source linked above:

I forgot columnaris bacteria likes high temps, so lowering the temp to the low side of what your fish require is helpful against columnaris.

FYI the good thing is if it's columnaris, it's a mild case.

You may also be able to use hydrogen peroxide, but i'd have to search for the treatment so let me know if you want it. We do what we can.
Sorry for the late reply, it's been a whirlwind of a week at work.

So I've been doing alt day water changes (not much improvement yet).Will keep doing it in addtion to pimafix being added to the water. Should i also consider milafix?

Thanks.
 
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