Possibly sick Betta?

[Ara]

So.. just yesterday I noticed that my betta girl, Red Sonja, does not look right. She looks like she has a whitish fuzzy bump across her nose, and the scales around her head & gills are greyish, with one scale even missing. :cry:


She seems to be eating fine, and swimmng fine, but.. I am not sure if this is a fungus.. or what to do about it.

Water Parametres (tested using API FW Master Kit)
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
PH: 7.6-7.8
Temp: 80
Aquarium Salt: 1 tbsp/5 gallons

Tanks mates: 8 juvenile bronze cories, 1 male guppy, 1 mystery snail, all seem fine

Sorry for the bad pics (and water marks - I was just cleaning tank!).. but it shows it a bit:





:feedback:

I currently have in the house Melafix and Pimafix.. not sure if Pimafix is the right treatment?

Thanks for any input!

 

[Ara]

Any thoughts?

 

[BioHazard]

Hmmm. I am not very good at disease ID. It looks like some kind of fungus to me though. I would PM Mel_20_20 with a link to this thread. She is pretty good with disease ID and treatment.
If it IS fungal, Pimafix would be the one to go with.

 

[H2Ogal]

Melafix and Bettafix contain melaleuca (tea tree oil), which may be dangerous to bettas and other labyrinth fish. You can search AC or google to read up on the on-going debate. FYI, it's supposed to be a healing aid and will not do anything to eliminate the underlying problem. (I can't help you there, but hope that someone will be able to soon. It might help to post in the Freshwater Illness and Disease forum.)

 

[mel_20_20]

I'm afraid this may possibly Columnaris, a bacterial infection. Could you try to get more photos, please?

Could you tell me a little more about your tank?
What size is it?
How long has it been set up?
Do you have plants? (I"m concerned that you have 0 nitrate in the tank. In a cycled tank, with 0 ammonia and nitrite, you should have some nitrate in the tank, unless the tank is very heavily planted.
Have you added any new fish in the last few days or week?
How long have you had Red Sonya?
What is your maint. schedule? Water changes frequency and volume of water changed?
What kind of water conditioner do you use?
What kind of filter do you have, and how to you clean it?
Is the temperature steady, by means of a heater?

I would turn down the heat a bit for now... say to around 75 or 76 degrees. If this is bacterial, at 77 and up the bacteria will take off.

I really would like to see as many photos as possible.

In the meantiime, I'm going to go through my files and find all the photos I can of Columnaris and fungus for comparison. I don't believe this is fungus, however, at least not without more visual confrimation.

I'll be back with some photos.

 

[mel_20_20]

Columnaris or Fungus: Photos for comparison


This first one shows Columnaris that is pretty advanced, but you can see that the lesions are filmy, gray, like wet cotton. The lesions can appear to be flat, dull areas, they can be grayish dull areas.



In this picture, notice on the body, just behind the head area, that there is a gray fuzzy area, not thickly developed yet, but characteristic.


In the above picture you see an example of true fungus. See that there is more of a more hairy appearance, like a piece of food you missed when you vacuumed the tank and then found several days later. Like a piece of bread that has mold growing on it.


Again, in the above picture, note the longer, whispier strands floating in the water, extending further out from the body.

Now, another thing to exclude as a possibility is a parasitic infection, such as Chilodenella or Glossatella, that can cause excessive slime coat that can look like that in the early stages, although it's too early to tell if that is the problem.

It could start to appear there on the head near the mouth, as in your photo of Red Sonya, but then later you would start to see excessive slime build up on the gills and other areas of the body, and then the slime coat seems to come off in sheets, but I'm jumping the gun. There are other symptoms that would be showing up if this was Chilodenella or Glossatella.

Do you see Red Sonya or any of the others rubbing on gravel or decor, or any heavy or labored breathing, or clamped fins?

Post more pics as soon as you can, along with answers to the questions in this and my previous post.

You are able to see her much better than we can, so compare the photos of Columnaris I posted, and let us know what you think.

I'm leaning more towards Columnaris at this point, but with more photos and information we may be able to make a more definitive diagnosis and start treatment.

I would try to set up a hospital tank to separate her from the others and to facilitate treatment, once we are sure of a diagnosis.

I hope she will be alright. I know we all will do everything we can to help.

 

[Ara]

Thanks soo uch for the responses guys... wow Mel you really know what you are talking about!! Today the spot that seemed 'fuzzy' looks just like it is grey and lumpy, but no fuzz, and nothing like those pics you sent (thank you!). She almost seems better in colour, but she's having laboured breathing and... and her nose almost seems a little swollen and her head is still grey. It's hard to explain..

Here's the answers to (I think) all of your questions)


Could you tell me a little more about your tank?
What size is it? 10 gallon long


How long has it been set up? Set up for 3 months, but cycled using bacteria from my 20 galllon which had been running for about 2 years...

Do you have plants? (I"m concerned that you have 0 nitrate in the tank. In a cycled tank, with 0 ammonia and nitrite, you should have some nitrate in the tank, unless the tank is very heavily planted. No live plants.. so I did another Nitrate reading.. came up with between 0 and MAYBE 2.0 ppm



Have you added any new fish in the last few days or week? Nope.. last addition was 8 baby bronze cories, but they went in about 5 weeks ago..


How long have you had Red Sonya? I got little Red Sonja about 4 months ago, from a really reputable fish store. I got her at the same time as another female betta, who is doing fine..


What is your maint. schedule? Water changes frequency and volume of water changed? I do a 20% WC every week, using Prime & gravel vacuum


What kind of water conditioner do you use? Just the old favourite, Prime

What kind of filter do you have, and how to you clean it? TopFin 20 filter, when I clean it I rinse out the filter media in old tank water (about 1/month), it seems to be working fine. I replace the filter about every 3 months, rubbing some of the old bacteria on the new filter media and making sure I do it when I have not just vaccummed the tank..


Is the temperature steady, by means of a heater? Yes, I have a heater, tank kept steady at 79-80.. so I will lower this to 76-77..


Do you see Red Sonya or any of the others rubbing on gravel or decor, or any heavy or labored breathing, or clamped fins? She does seem llike she is 'breathing heavily', her gils constantly moving and he mouth kind of open.. she still seems to have her fins out okay though, and I would not say she is rubbing things, just, hiding more. No one else in the tank (8 baby corys & 1 male guppy) seems affected at all..

She is eating okay, and still swimming around, but her horizontal stress lines are a bit more visual than ussual..




I cannot seem to get any good shots, tonight she is being really skiddish, which is unusual, she is ussually very inquisitive.. she likes to play with my hand when I clean out the tank. . But tonight when I was snapping pics she freaked .. even smacked up against the side of the tank in her frantic attempt to get away from the flash. Now she is hiding the the silk plants.. I don't think her wall-smash did any damage tho.. I got a couple (one that shows how pretty her colours are) but they don't really show how grey her head got..I wish I had a decent 'before' picture.






I will try to get some better ones later tonight..if she lets me. And I am off to set up my hospital tank, just in case. I'm not sure I will move her yet, I still cannot figure out if she is really sick.. or if I am overreacting. :footinmouth:


Thanks soo much for the responses...

 

[Reframer]

I'm sorry, I really don't like the looks of that, strongly suspect early stages of columnaris. I normally don't like to use meds right away but if it is that, then you need to hit it hard and fast with something like kanamycin.

 

[Juice]

I could be completely mistaken but I don't think you need to be changing your filter out that often or at all really. I was told just a good rinse and shake in some old tank water will do the trick but I could be wrong.

As for the health issues, I have no clue but I hope your baby gets better!!!

 

[mel_20_20]

I agree completely with Reframer. I think it's time to act. Kanamycin or Kanaplex would be a good choice, in fact an excellent choice. Columnaris is deadly and time is of the essence.

Get her into the hospital tank as soon as possible.

Bring the temp down to 75-76 and no higher in the hospital tank. I would also try to mix up some food with Kanamycin in it to get it inside the Betta. Kanaplex comes in a small bottle with a tiny scoop in it. I would put one scoop in 3 tablespoons of distilled or spring water, mix it thoroughly. Drop a cube of blood worms in it and let them soak for about an hour, or if you have Betta pellets then I'd drop enough in the water to soak up the liquid.

Don't feed Sonya anything else, hopefully she'll get some of that in her. She won't eat very much of it, so I don't think she'll overdose on that. If you do see that she readily gulps any of that down, then back off and feed that in tiny servings. If she ate one Betta pellet twice a day, or one blood worm a day that would be good.

I think quick action is imperative.

If you can't get the Kanaplex (Kanacyn, or Kanamycin) then the next best choice would be Maracyn and Maracyn II ( you must use these two in combination)

The other tank has been exposed. Studies have shown that fish that have been exposed to Columnaris can avoid infection if their tank water has a percentage of salinity, with .1% to .3% being recommeneded, with the .3% salinity showing no mortalitity at all in fish exposed, but not yet infected. This means you would slowly bring their tank water in the other tank up to 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon. This won't hurt the fish, in fact this is the method of choice to treat Ich without any harm, so I would do this to help prevent infection in the other fish.

I wouldn't do salt in the hospital tank, however, as she is already infected.

Start immediately if you want to save your Betta. Columnaris is deadly, and virulent strains can act very fast.

EDIT: any medicated food should be covered tightly and refrigerated.