(Potentially stupid) Sump Question

Wippit Guud

Wippit Guud

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Sep 27, 2002
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PEI, Canada
So many questions, so little money to try it myself. :)

Ok, to people who use sumps, and drill instead of using overflow boxes:

What happens if the power goes off?
 
you dont drill the bottom of the tank and use a wet/dry filter or sump. If the tank is drilled some type canister filter is probabily being used. If there are overflow boxes or built in overflow a wet/dry is probabily being used. Canister filters dont work connected directily to overflow boxes/ some type of sump is needed. There are very few exceptions sometimes tanks have both types of filters and water pickup.....ya you drill the bottom of your tank and use a sump, well when the power goes off you will drain your tank every time!!!
 
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Not to divert the thread...but why drill a tank to connect a canister filter? Does it give you some mystery advantage besides aesthetics?

EDIT: I was assuming that we are drilling the bottom of the tank. I may not have made that clear.
 
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It is absolutely absurd to drill the bottom of a tank without that area being surrounded by overflow baffles. The only feasible way to drill without sealed, built-in overflows is if you drill one of the sides near the top (again, acting like an overflow). I personally think even the direct syphon system is dangerous, unless you use those overflow boxes. I won't bore you with details, unless you ask.

Wippit, I'm assuming that you do know there are at least two ways of doing (safe) overfows. You mentioned the overflow box kits, but have you seen a professionally drilled tank, with overflow baffles in the corner(s)?
 
I have an extra large sump because I was worried about it draining back if I lost power. I have installed a check valve in the supply line so the water will not syfone back down but even if it does my sump is large enuf to hold the water untill the syfone breaks free ( I have my outlet close to the top of the water) it should only drain out 10-15 gal if the check valve does't work and my sump will hold the extra water. I test everything out once a week to make sure it works during my weekly cleaning and water changes. I have a 30 gal sump on a 120 gal tank ( it was only $40 more than the 20 gal sump)
 
I see you involved with alot of DIY and such, Dabbler. That's awesome, I've heard some good ideas from you. I still think the syphon idea is a risk. Can you explain your system a little better, and I'll point out my problems with the syphon system. Do you have a check valve on the supply line to the TANK or to the SUMP? Also are both your intake to the tank and exit from the tank below the waterline? Have you drilled the bottom of your tank, sides, etc? I'll await your reply.
 
I have a built in over flow reef style tank. When the pump shuts down the water just finishes overflowing and then stops. I have a check valve in the return water line. The return line is just under the water line in the tank so if the check valve fails it could only drain down through the supply line about 15 gal and my sump would accept that much water. I'll try to post a pic tonight of it to make it more clear
 
Ahhh, now I see. You have a classic overflow design. They are very dependable. Not a bad idea to use the check valve, but definately not necessary, as long as you have the room in your sump, which you shoud definately plan for! At first I thought you were saying that you had a check valve on your sump intake (obviously didn't make sense to me). I'm glad I didn't assume. Yes, you have an ideal overflow/sump setup, IMO.

A few people have talked about having a direct syphon via U-joint from the tank to the sump, with a pump getting the water back into the tank. This is the catastrophy waiting to happen that I was talking about. They try their best to match the water being syphoned into the sump (with a ball valve) with the water being brought back into the tank with the pump. Even if they can get this ratio CLOSE to correct. When the power fails, guess what? Syphon still works till air gets into the tube. Let's say the sump has room for all the water till the waterline is below the intake to the sump. When this happens, the water stays that level until the power comes back on again....DOH! Pump works all that water that it's holding back into the tank until it runs itself dry and breaks, melts sump, etc. Plus you get the added benefit of having the syphon NOT start back up as the water level raises, so it overflows the tank. Now you get wet carpet, shorted out electrical stuff (very dangerous), and the melted sump! Man, and you just got the ball valve working properly! :P

Hope nobody does this, to say the least.
 
Lets say you dont drill your tank and you want a sump. OK.
what do you think of the "poor mans sump"

Have a overflow box syphon the water from the tank to a container on the ground. Good. Place a pump in the container to pump the water from container back to tank. Your done.

Problems.

1.) What if the Syphon breaks (possible) or power goes out- The pump will pump the water into tank and OVERFLOW the tank.

SOLUTION- While the pump is on the bottom of the tank, have it setup so there is a tube only a few inches from the top of the water level in the sump, so it will only pump the water untill the water level is at the tubes starting point. This way, the pump will pump only the first few inches, then stop. the tank wont overflow if the syphon breaks for power failure.

NO DRILLING NEEDED!!! POor mans sump
 
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