Hang on. Just want to know this, not being critical or what ever. It still sounds to me that even with the rfug the richer substrate produces the better growth. I didn't mean to blame the filtering I just meant to comment on the need for a rich substrate and the tendency of the Vals to root feed. That is why I think a substrate enrichment under the plants would help.
Problems with Vals ???
- Thread starter daveedka
- Start date
RFUGs are only providing water column ferts to the substrate, circulating 24/7, so should be the equal of any enriched substrate around for nutrient availability. I do not provide the higher level of nutrients I have in my enriched tanks to the Vals in RFUG, because I don't have to do so. They are not sword plants. If I fed the original planted OE-RFUG at the level of my enriched substrates (which I am moving away from but still have several going), they would be worse than stem plants - an upkeep issue. That is why I cut the ferts and the light and the carbon source in that original tank, to slow them down.
Nobody around here handles red flint anymore. That used to be my favorite substrate.
Nobody around here handles red flint anymore. That used to be my favorite substrate.
Swimfins
This is as good as it gets.
Vals in my tank are the best plant, I'm considering letting them take over the back and letting the pygmy chain sword have the front. These 2 plants are the happiest. My ambulia has a bad tendancy to float, even anchored with weights its always displaced in the morning by the night shift. 
I wonder if it will ever stay put. Gravel is terralit and regular small size aquarium gravel and volcanic detritus. I notice when I pull a val it has the porous volcanic rock attatched to the root. I figure it likes iron as does my swordplant when I moved it, the roots were full of laterite bits.
I wonder if it will ever stay put. Gravel is terralit and regular small size aquarium gravel and volcanic detritus. I notice when I pull a val it has the porous volcanic rock attatched to the root. I figure it likes iron as does my swordplant when I moved it, the roots were full of laterite bits.
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Water column feeding and root feeding are one in the same with RFUG. The filter delivers constant flow of nutrients to the substrate (roots) and allows for a much better balance to root fed plants. I am fairly sure there is a nutrient defeciency of some type, not a delivery problem. If the system didn't deliver well, my swords would not do well, and they are very prolific and very fast to grow. RTR grows vals well in RFUG, as do a few other folks. I thought I was the only person in the world who couldn't grow them until I talked to the Employee at my LFS Saturday. He has multiple tanks, multiple light and fert regimens, and still can't get vals to grow either. The one thing he doesn't have is RFUG, but still has the same problem. There is something missing in my water I believe, and I am trying to find it. John is using the same tap water and Eco complete and is having success. So the ingredints in eco complete may reveal the missing element. While adding Root tabs or enriched substrate may change things, Finding out what the plant needs that it isn't getting will give the same result without the side effects of the other ideas.
Dave
Dave
I have never used a UGF. I have a 50g tank in the basement with one in it but it is not running and the last time I set it up I never used it. So I am really just thinking about that tank in the future here. I am growing out a 30g right now and hoping to eventually grow that tank into the 50g.
I have been keeping fish and tanks and plants on and off for probably about 30 years and never really paid much attention to the chemistry. I have lived in three different states in that time and pretty much just adapted to the water I got from the tap. I think I have created every disaster you can imagine. But in the meantime I have keep some fish alive for up to 10 years and all three of my tanks right now have some Java Fern that I bought in the early 80s in Albany CA. One of the 10gs is just Java moss and fern on three pieces of driftwood. No substrate at all. That tank is incredibly easy to clean. For some reason the Java fern is not doing very well right now. I am not sure what is going on with it.
Anyway, I am just poking around. Been reading this site for about a week trying to figure out who knows what they are talking about. I put a few so called contortion Vallisneria in the back corner of the 30g the other day. So I am following this little discussion for that reason. They are doing fine. Putting in some pretty good growth right now. I have no idea why.
I have been keeping fish and tanks and plants on and off for probably about 30 years and never really paid much attention to the chemistry. I have lived in three different states in that time and pretty much just adapted to the water I got from the tap. I think I have created every disaster you can imagine. But in the meantime I have keep some fish alive for up to 10 years and all three of my tanks right now have some Java Fern that I bought in the early 80s in Albany CA. One of the 10gs is just Java moss and fern on three pieces of driftwood. No substrate at all. That tank is incredibly easy to clean. For some reason the Java fern is not doing very well right now. I am not sure what is going on with it.
Anyway, I am just poking around. Been reading this site for about a week trying to figure out who knows what they are talking about. I put a few so called contortion Vallisneria in the back corner of the 30g the other day. So I am following this little discussion for that reason. They are doing fine. Putting in some pretty good growth right now. I have no idea why.
Eco-Complete has the rep on these boards of increasing hardness in the early days of its use, at least somewhat comparable to Seachem's Onyx sand. It may well be that you are on the right track playing with hardness. One question may be the Ca++/Mg++ ratio - which GH testing does not reveal. Does your utility have the figures on Ca/Mg ratio available? Imbalances there can cause inhibition/competition and give poor or distorted growth.
This was what led to the Calcium dosing. I am sure our utility lists ratios, but I cannot find them anywhere on the website. They have all kinds of stuff explaining their processes and not info on the end results.
I dose magnesium heavy as well (have been doing so for several months) hardness tests since I started dosing Ca and Mg both are putting me in the range of 200-250 ppm Before the addition of those two agents, The GH was around 120 ppm with a Kh <3
Just out of curiosity is there an ideal ratio? Since I'm dosing both, I could dose ratio specific like I do with my macros, and maybe hit on something.
BTW since I started the Ca two weeks ago, not only are my snails doing better, but there is a defined line on every snail shell with thicker better looking shell from the line forward. It is kind of cool to see the difference, not to mention I have some Ramshorn pushing the 3/4 inch mark for the first time.
dave
reiverix said:
Well that didn't last. Put back most of the val because the tank just didn't look right without them.
As for ca/mg ratio, I started dosing 5:3 ca to mg. However, I read on thekrib.com (and I can't find the link) that a 4:1 ratio is ideal. Since my plants showed vast improvement I just kept up with what I was doing. Finally, my pond snails are improving and I am not finding any more white shells in my substrate. I think I will increase my K as my anubias are showing sure signs of deficiency. Dave, I am dosing around 15ppm per week but it looks like you are having better luck with double that amount.
Yep, My annubias were cronic with holes in the leaves, RTR mentioned the same issue and suggested increased K dosing. I slowly increased mine until the holes quit showing up and here's where I am. The last several weeks have been really good for my annubias finally.
dave
